The Reality of the World of Voice Acting


Kevin Coulter has been pursuing voice acting as a career for years, where they found both a sense of purpose and success. The story portrayed is grounded in the grittiness of self-starting, but thankfully has a happy ending. Or rather, a happy present and future.

Links to Kevin's Stuff:
Kevin's website:


Jordan Ugalde: Welcome to the Path of Passion Podcast, the podcast where we meet people who are passionate about their path in life. I am your host Jordan, and this is my gorgeous co host.

Tyler T Hamer: Hi I'm the gorgeous Tyler.

Jordan Ugalde: And today, we are interviewing Kevin. Now Kevin is a voice actor so he's going to show us all up on the mic and he has much better equipment than us.

Jordan Ugalde: He

Jordan Ugalde: probably sounds much more professional so let's just jump right into it. Kevin why, why did you start voice acting, what appealed to you about it?

Kevin Coulter: That's a great question um so I have been acting since high school. I took acting lessons in high school, as my like Fine Arts elective just kind of on a whim.

Kevin Coulter: And I like really enjoyed being on stage, I really enjoyed being able to like portray different characters but I hated memorizing lines, like, I would just like to second guess myself, like every rehearsal, I would like second death on my lines, I'd call for line all the time.

Kevin Coulter: To the point where my first like live performance, my director had me sit outside with one other person, and we were just drilling lines for like an hour and a half before the show started and nobody else had to do that.

Kevin Coulter: So I kind of followed a path of doing

Kevin Coulter: acting where I, I tried various different types of acting because none of them really felt like it. Like I enjoyed it, but it wasn't like the one I guess.

Kevin Coulter: So I tried obviously started with stage acting, I tried improv which I completely fell in love with and I tried film acting.

Kevin Coulter: But improv didn't really feel like something that I could make a career off of like you had to be like very lucky or in the right locations, or vice or things like that.

Kevin Coulter: And then one day in high school, I was like at my girlfriend's house at the time, and I was like singing along to a Tenacious D song.

Kevin Coulter: And it was one

Jordan Ugalde: Which one which one?

Kevin Coulter: It was uh, it was Tribute. And

Kevin Coulter: I was just like every part I was just like singing, along with the voices and my girlfriend's mom was like, wow you're really good at copying those voices have you ever considered voice acting and I was like that's real?

Kevin Coulter: I would play video games and watch cartoons all the time and I don't know why I didn't realize that there are people

Kevin Coulter: doing that.

Kevin Coulter: But anyway, like years later I finally like got a mic and gave it a try and it was great, not only because, like, I still had that like portraying characters and, like you, don't really have to memorize lines, because you can just have it in front of you.

Kevin Coulter: But it was also like.

Kevin Coulter: When you are on a stage or on film you're all, you're very limited to how you look physically like you can't be another person like you can put on makeup or you know, like change how you dress or whatever, but you can't like, I can't be a giant demon in real life.

Jordan Ugalde: You can try.

Tyler T Hamer: There's special effects

Tyler T Hamer: artists.

Kevin Coulter: So it's like it gives you the freedom to like explore a lot of new acting choices and explore a lot of like push yourself out of your comfort zone and stuff like that.

Kevin Coulter: Unfortunately, in my voice range isn't the demon voice range.

Kevin Coulter: But it was just really nice to to find that and I just completely fell in love.

Tyler T Hamer: So, like based off your voice range what's like the most unexpected role that you got because you know they don't have to see you?

Kevin Coulter: I.

Kevin Coulter: I don't know if I'd consider it unexpected but I recently did a...

Kevin Coulter: A friend of mine was running a D and D game, and he wanted me to be like the voice of the main villain who was actually this like.

Kevin Coulter: This guy who got like possessed and his like soul was taken over, and like he died and his soul was like lingering in in the area.

Kevin Coulter: And the the original version of him is like trying to get the the adventurers is to come to the castle to like purify it to get the evil presence out of it.

Kevin Coulter: But he's also this evil being so it was like having to switch between no I'm, I'm sane and I'm your friend and you have to save us to like I'm completely insane.

Kevin Coulter: Being able to do like that dichotomy was like super fun and I think it definitely caught people off guard.

Tyler T Hamer: That's amazing.

Jordan Ugalde: Have you ever seen.

Jordan Ugalde: David Hasselhoff playing Jekyll and Hyde.

Kevin Coulter: I haven't, that sonuds amazing.

Jordan Ugalde: There's this one

Jordan Ugalde: So we can pull up later, but there's this one video on YouTube where he basically has half of his face decorated as Hyde so he has.

Jordan Ugalde: Really long hair, grotesque makeup and then he looks standard handsome Hasselhoff on the other side and there's a light shift whenever he changes character, so he faces one way and he is he's so brave and courageous and then he's evil.

Jordan Ugalde: It's fun it's, I I love seeing the spectrum of what actors can create even in just technically the same role but split.

Kevin Coulter: Right absolutely.

Jordan Ugalde: Yeah and talking about these different roles, so I know there are some voice actors, I think Johnny Yong Bosch is one where I every time I hear his voice, I know it's him. So he he has a voice that's very recognizable that's generally sounds the same every time but

Jordan Ugalde: he's very emotionally expressive with his voice.

Jordan Ugalde: Right and then to contrast that there's someone like ProZD who does

Jordan Ugalde: wildly different voices.

Jordan Ugalde: He can sound like a

Jordan Ugalde: very masculine man and then also a much more higher pitch like chairem sempai.

Kevin Coulter: Yeah.

Jordan Ugalde: So.

Jordan Ugalde: What as a voice actor what's your take on the strengths of each of those and what kind of direction, do you try and delve into.

Kevin Coulter: Um so something that I like to stress, and something that I've seen through various people in the industry is.

Kevin Coulter: The thing that's going ta,o you're going to be able to sell yourself with the most is your natural voice. Like of course it's it's good to be able to change up your voice and do like different characters.

Kevin Coulter: But ultimately your greatest asset is how you sound like naturally because it's what you have the most experience with. So people like Johnny Yong Bosch who, like every time you hear him you're like there he is, like I know who that is.

Kevin Coulter: Like they're focusing entirely on I am a good actor, which is like the most important part of the voice actor. It's the acting comes first, which.

Kevin Coulter: A lot of people who are first getting introduced to voiceover and trying to discover it themselves kind of fall in the trap of like.

Kevin Coulter: I do a lot of voices, so therefore I'll be a good voice actor when it's ultimately about how well you can portray those characters.

Kevin Coulter: Not like oh, I do a good Donald Duck impression, but it's like do you understand how Donald Duck is feeling in this circumstance? So what I'd like to focus on and what I encourage other people to focus on is making strong acting choices and not necessarily doing the goofy voice.

Tyler T Hamer: So just don't like if you're doing D and D, the demon isn't monotone the entire time.

Kevin Coulter: Exactly.

Jordan Ugalde: Okay cool and with that characterization, can you,

Jordan Ugalde: I know it's a lot to ask on the spot.

Kevin Coulter: Oh God.

Jordan Ugalde: Like with the, with the demon king, for example, if you remember anything about what that characterization was like um.

Jordan Ugalde: How, how do you approach getting into character.

Kevin Coulter: Yeah whoo um so there's a.

Kevin Coulter: There's a big, Uta Hagen is like a famous acting teacher from I don't know forever ago probably.

Kevin Coulter: And they had a worksheet or like a series of questions that you basically write like an essay on the character and like what their motivations are, what the situation they're in is like, what is their goal in this situation.

Kevin Coulter: Like who are they talking to like what's the point they're trying to get across and you're just like really break down.

Kevin Coulter: The scene, which, like even extends into commercial voiceover like if I'm doing some dumb, I shouldn't say dumb but if I'm doing some

Kevin Coulter: run of the mill like, "Come to Kohl's today and get 100% off everything you buy please come in."

Jordan Ugalde: 100% off that's pretty appealing.

Tyler T Hamer: I'd go to Kohl's right now.

Tyler T Hamer: Like I love this podcast I'll go right now to Kohl's.

Kevin Coulter: Even then I'm still like doing the worksheets like, who am I trying to sell this to, like who in my life, can I pull from to like encourage myself to get in the state of mind that I need to be or if it's like.

Kevin Coulter: If it's like an intimate like "By a Jetta today and you'll be really fast" like what, who needs to know this? Why am I telling someone about this, especially, in commercials,

Kevin Coulter: the trend has gone more towards conversational style voices, so they really want you to sound genuine and like you're talking to someone you know already so it's like you really have to put yourself in that mindset and like.

Kevin Coulter: Who am I talking to? Why am I telling them this? Why is it important? Like, what's my goal?

Jordan Ugalde: That that honestly reminds me a lot of my time in the software industry, where we we did like persona analysis, persona construction where we decide, like define what the person is like in very, very great detail.

Jordan Ugalde: Who we're trying to build our product for and

Jordan Ugalde: sometimes we did like very elaborate with their back stories and stuff.

Jordan Ugalde: Because the more clear we have of the character, the more clear, we can say this is how we want to write our narrative for them so yeah that makes sense for the voice, but at the same time having a.

Jordan Ugalde: With Tyler I don't normally say "have you bought a Jetta today?"

Tyler T Hamer: I was, I was gonna say like.

Tyler T Hamer: normal I'm trying to think of like in normal conversation oh OK, I can think of one where I was peddling you guys, you Jordan. I, when Lauren and I got the air fryer and I didn't shut up about it, I kept telling everyone to buy an air fryer.

Jordan Ugalde: Yes.

Jordan Ugalde: You should be an affiliate marketer for air fryers.

Tyler T Hamer: Yeah I think I have a Corsori?

Kevin Coulter: Have you heard of air fryers?

Kevin Coulter: Let me tell you.

Jordan Ugalde: So are there, like general tropey voices that you lean towards when going for the different roles, like for commercials is there, soft sensual...

Kevin Coulter: Um when you focus on commercial it tends to be like unless it calls for like a younger voice, or like an older voice which I'm not the best at.

Kevin Coulter: You tend to just be using your natural voice and you're adding like different characteristics to it, so instead of saying like there's a trope for a voice that I'd use for commercial work I'd say like.

Kevin Coulter: Is this supposed to be like conversational or intimate or like am I supposed to be energetic? Am I selling toys which, like one of my favorite directors described that is just yelling at kids which I love.

Tyler T Hamer: I'm picturing like doing like the like monster truck rally on Sunday like "BUY THIS TOY, BUY THIS TOY, BUY THIS TOY".

Jordan Ugalde: I'm just imagining,

Jordan Ugalde: you're going to a playground and yelling at the kids at the slide "BUY THIS TOY".

Jordan Ugalde: Oh man.

Tyler T Hamer: So take it away.

Jordan Ugalde: How do you find these kinds of roles?

Jordan Ugalde: Because honestly, it sounds like fun every once awhile to be able to yell at a kid so like, how do you.

Jordan Ugalde: How do you.

Tyler T Hamer: Like our podcast gets rated m for mature now.

Jordan Ugalde: So, whether it's commercial games like, how do you find these different roles?

Kevin Coulter: Depending on what you're looking for you're going to kind of go to different areas.

Kevin Coulter: Generally, starting out people tend to gravitate toward, gravitate towards a site called which is for the most part, a lot of like passion projects that are unpaid.

Kevin Coulter: Like a lot of visual novels or like short animations or things of that nature. They do post paid casting calls on there, but it's almost all like animation, video game on that site.

Kevin Coulter: As well as like audio dramas and podcasts I guess.

Kevin Coulter: There are also websites like or, I mean like I have a whole list of stuff that I have to go through, but like I market myself on Twitter, I have a website, um there's cold calling or cold emailing like.

Jordan Ugalde: Well, while we have you there what is, what is your website and your Twitter.

Jordan Ugalde: Just so that everyone can know.

Kevin Coulter: My website is.

Kevin Coulter: and my Twitter is @Coultergheist for that spelled C O U L T E R G H E I S T.

Kevin Coulter: Like a play on words with poltergeist.

Jordan Ugalde: Okay now now with that repping out of the way so.

Jordan Ugalde: You market yourself on these different websites you market yourself on Twitter um how much of getting started was you actively cold, doing cold outreach to people versus like inbound what was that process like getting started.

Kevin Coulter: Starting, for me, I know, like every voice actor has like an entirely different story.

Kevin Coulter: But starting for me was.

Kevin Coulter: I needed to know that I could get myself to the point where I would feel confident lending my voice to certain roles, so it was just a lot of classes, I was just constantly taking classes and like practicing and like I didn't audition for anything at all.

Kevin Coulter: Like I'd see things that I could have auditioned for and I'd see the finished product and I'd be like I should have done that, like I'm better.

Kevin Coulter: And then, as it progressed forward I you know I went to and I auditioned for things there back in the day, there was.

Kevin Coulter: a bunch of older websites like and.

Kevin Coulter: Oh man I don't remember the other one.

Kevin Coulter: But, just like smaller things I think I auditioned for stuff on too like.

Jordan Ugalde: Oh wow.

Jordan Ugalde: Blast from the past right there yeah.

Tyler T Hamer: Flash animation.

Kevin Coulter: Yeah it was, I was very unfocused back then, and like eventually I like talk to more industry professionals I got more advice from people and really started like.

Kevin Coulter: Networking with more voiceovers not to like sell my voice to them, but to figure out their process was to get more skills under my belt and then I started being more focused about it and, like.

Kevin Coulter: there's a lot of like pay to play sites which you can sign up for them, but you can only be invited to audition.

Kevin Coulter: Unless you pay them and then you get like free

Kevin Coulter: auditions that you can do and then.

Kevin Coulter: Just buckling down getting a certain number of done per day and then like spending time marketing, spending time like being a real human on the Internet so people want to work with you.

Jordan Ugalde: So getting started with that of.

Jordan Ugalde: Learning, taking the time to learn effectively this public persona of

Jordan Ugalde: how to craft yourself.

Jordan Ugalde: What was that process like, like how long did that take you to shape the self that you want to present on the Internet?

Kevin Coulter: Oh, that was a miserable experience.

Kevin Coulter: I um.

Kevin Coulter: I, like I got a lot of books on like how to market yourself and like how to be an influencer or whatever like being an online person.

Kevin Coulter: And I was reading those and it was giving me like decide what your brand is and like stay true to your brand and like I don't know I just got I like kind of fell in this hole of like I created this idea of what my brand was going to be and it like didn't feel like me it felt like.

Kevin Coulter: I was an product and then I started to get like a little, like I spiraled a little bit from it was like I what am I doing? Like I don't seem believable like I'm not interacting with people.

Kevin Coulter: And I kind of like had to go through this weird journey of self discovery in the voiceover world where I have had to find a way to like blend my authentic self into my product so.

Kevin Coulter: I am a real person like you want to work with me because, like, I can engage with your fans on like a real human level or I can like be a real normal person that's what you

Kevin Coulter: want like you don't want to fake product to sell your fake product you want.

Tyler T Hamer: You don't want to sound like the chevy commercials where we randomly got people off the street like.

Kevin Coulter: Exactly.

Jordan Ugalde: It seems so

Jordan Ugalde: difficult to balance the presentation of a normal person versus just being your organic self and the thing is, I would say to some extent.

Jordan Ugalde: Any persona is just a sliver of your organic self.

Jordan Ugalde: But it can I definitely see where you're coming from that it can be hard to

Jordan Ugalde: find something that feels authentic both to you and to other people because

Jordan Ugalde: Some sometimes it, I have known people where they can put on a facade that other people believe in, but that they have no faith in themselves.

Jordan Ugalde: And there are occasional cracks that come through.

Jordan Ugalde: But to have some a coherent sense of self like I would imagine there's a lot of self self discovery.

Kevin Coulter: Absolutely I, the way that I started was like I'm just gonna be like unrelentlessly optimistic and I realized like how badly that can come off.

Kevin Coulter: Like there's nothing real about nothing ever goes wrong in my life.

Kevin Coulter: Everything is always perfect and I'm always happy and.

Kevin Coulter: Always uplifting.

Jordan Ugalde: Everything is awesome yeah.

Kevin Cutl: Yeah.

Tyler T Hamer: Yeah.

Tyler T Hamer: that's why they didn't make the song everything is terrible.

Jordan Ugalde: Some things are good, some things are bad.

Kevin Coulter: And then I think like I wasn't getting engaged with a lot and I, like it was putting a lot of pressure on myself to always be that happy.

Kevin Coulter: So instead of like like I am a generally happy and and generally optimistic person, so I thought it would come to me easily but it absolutely did not because it felt like I was forcing it instead of it coming from like a real place so nowadays like there's a lot like like shit posting mixed in with the brand.

Jordan Ugalde: I feel that's approachable, though.

Kevin Coulter: Yeah, exactly.

Jordan Ugalde: Yeah like.

Jordan Ugalde: they're very much is.

Jordan Ugalde: people want to see a real person, and I mean, I will say, sometimes watching Transformers where it's just mindless fun is a blast but I, I love seeing real characters and why I've loved doing this podcast is.

Jordan Ugalde: Usually within the second hour or or deep into it.

Jordan Ugalde: The initial guards have been let down, and we can hear like real very honest stories and it's so interesting to see what real people's stories are like because those real stories have a lot of meat to them they're very juicy and I love digging into those so on those lines.

Tyler T Hamer: This is our advertisement for steak.

Jordan Ugalde: So along those lines, you were taking classes earlier this, this podcast episode is sponsored by

Jordan Ugalde: No, not by Skill Share we don't have any sponsors yet.

Tyler T Hamer: MasterClass.

Jordan Ugalde: Yes.

Jordan Ugalde: No, but going back to what I was saying in terms of that self discovery like.

Jordan Ugalde: Can you go into some of the highs and lows of what the actual work for that was like? Because self discovery is a word we hear a lot and it's not always easy to understand, let alone do.

Kevin Coulter: Yeah actually the pandemic was a big self discovery thing for me.

Kevin Coulter: At the beginning of the pandemic or a little bit before the pandemic, I was actually finally made the decision to like leave my traditional career and go into voiceover full time.

Kevin Coulter: So there was a lot of like how am I going to make this work and how am I gonna.

Kevin Coulter: Stay motivated like what's the process and then also discovering like who I was when I didn't have something externally, to provide me motivation.

Kevin Coulter: which was definitely a riot.

Kevin Coulter: I definitely, it took a lot to like get myself out of.

Kevin Coulter: At the time I was in a lot of unhealthy situations, I was living with people that didn't quite respect me and I was kind of getting out of an unhealthy relationship so it was like.

Kevin Coulter: A lot of time to just like sit in my room by myself feeling bad and really discover like what were the core values that made me and how do I, how do I, like convey that, in a way that is not only compelling but engaging.

Kevin Coulter: And like I mentioned before the unending optimism was like I wasn't getting any engagement, nobody wants to interact with the person who, like the only thing they have to say is it's gonna be fine.

Kevin Coulter: But it's definitely, I mean with any, any social media, especially if you turn it into like your source of living.

Kevin Coulter: It's very invalidating when things don't like if you get really excited about something, and you don't get the numbers out of it that you're looking for you start to like question oh, am I doing this right or like.

Kevin Coulter: On the other hand, you'll post something like this is gonna be the worst thing I've ever done and it gets like the most engagement out of anything.

Jordan Ugalde: Yep.

Kevin Coulter: It's definitely it's

Kevin Coulter: definitely absolutely a roller coaster.

Kevin Coulter: Learning to like.

Kevin Coulter: make those bonds with people that are more than just oh, we have the same job like.

Kevin Coulter: Being able to rely on people that are in the same industry as you is like is like a huge thing for me. Actually recently made a few posts about like hey I just need people to hold me accountable that also do voiceover like let's bully each other, so we get our stuff done.

Jordan Ugalde: Yeah.

Tyler T Hamer: So I

Tyler T Hamer: I was gonna say like how big is like you're like your community or like the number of people that keep you accountable is it like there's like five of you is like the.

Tyler T Hamer: voice is there, like small groups within the voice acting community or is it like you know, like one big I guess like like reddit where everyone's on it like centralized or.

Jordan Ugalde: One big happy family.

Kevin Coulter: There is a Discord channel called voice acting club that has like.

Kevin Coulter: 10s of thousands of people on it and like they post like, I'm looking to hang out with people, I want to practice with people, they'll post like hey there's this casting call that I found.

Kevin Coulter: Here, if it's paid or unpaid, or like non voiceover stuff like there's things like that for friends, but like.

Kevin Coulter: Basically, every voiceover has their own or every voice actor has their own discord that varies in size that they like hang out with people.

Kevin Coulter: I have like besides my own personal support group, who I

Kevin Coulter: also helped me hold myself accountable, I have like a few people that I reach out to like individually that like will send me casting calls if they think that I'm a good fit or they'll update me on what they're working on for inspiration or ask me when I'm working on.

Kevin Coulter: So I don't know there's like maybe 10 or so people that I interact with regularly for voiceover specifically.

Kevin Coulter: That I try to stay like closer with but I'm also part of like larger communities.

Kevin Coulter: Which is like sometimes really stressful to keep up with just because there's so many people constantly talking.

Jordan Ugalde: 10,000 is a lot.

Tyler T Hamer: Like the voices in Twitch Plays Pokemon.

Jordan Ugalde: Oh man.

Jordan Ugalde: How did you find out about these communities when you were getting started?

Kevin Coulter: A lot of research.

Kevin Coulter: I'm, I

Kevin Coulter: getting started I I found a voiceover school near me that I just started going to and I met people through there who like told me about websites, but it was also like googling.

Kevin Coulter: Where can I go to find casting calls or how to do voiceover, shoot I, there's a great website by oh what's his name.

Kevin Coulter: Oh, I can't remember his name it's called I want to Dee Bradley Baker cool it's called

Kevin Coulter: And it's really a great starting place for.

Kevin Coulter: People who are looking to get into voiceover beginners or even like everyone and their path like it, it helps you it gives you tips for auditioning it teaches you how to find an agent it teaches you like ways to find.

Kevin Coulter: coaches, or like how to get started acting by yourself, if coaching isn't something that you have the budget for.

Kevin Coulter: What not to do what to do, how to make a demo, it has like everything on this website, but then I don't know if that existed when I started doing voiceover so I actually listened to, I don't want to shout out a different podcast on your.

Tyler T Hamer: No that's fine.

Kevin Coulter: Crispin Freeman who's like one of my favorite voice actors of all time does a great podcast called Voice Acting Mastery

Kevin Coulter: where he basically talks about what he's learned over his long career and he interviews industry professionals, or even some of his students to get like their story.

Kevin Coulter: So that was a great source for me and like weirdly got me through some dark times, just like strange from like a information podcast but it helped me stay focused and.

Tyler T Hamer: I feel like it's probably probably like a like a good North star right?

Tyler T Hamer: Where like you're down, but like you're like.

Tyler T Hamer: Okay, if even if I go about doing much this day if I'm listening to this it's like doing laundry like you like end up watching TV but you're like I made progress.

Kevin Coulter: Exactly.

Jordan Ugalde: By the way, Dee Bradley Baker, I had the wonderful privilege of seeing him live at video games live at comic con like

Jordan Ugalde: almost a decade ago.

Kevin Coulter: Oh that's amazing.

Jordan Ugalde: And there was, do you guys know Gears of War?

Tyler T Hamer: Yep, good game.

Jordan Ugalde: So he was the voice of the berserker.

Tyler T Hamer: Oh right.

Jordan Ugalde: Yeah that monster that's basically blind and just charges through stuff and they had someone just, they were streaming the footage of the first fight with that monster, while he was on stage with the mic doing the sounds for that monster live and

Jordan Ugalde: humans can make a lot of sounds with their mouth.

Jordan Ugalde: and orifices.

Kevin Coulter: I recently took a class from a, he's now a voice actor, but he used to be an ex metal singer.

Kevin Coulter: And he, like teaches you like the growling techniques from

Kevin Coulter: like death metal.

Kevin Coulter: to do creature sounds it was like one of the most fascinating classes I've ever taken.

Jordan Ugalde: Did he teach the pterodactyl screech.

Jordan Ugalde: There are some metal songs that have like this.

Tyler T Hamer: Now I'm beginning to wonder in like Jurassic Park, if, like they took the sounds from animals or they just got people like make all those sounds.

Jordan Ugalde: Well, have you have you guys heard of the movie The Wind Also rises? It's a Miyazaki movie an animated film where all of the sound effects are just human voices, so the so the plane is like *rubububub*.

Jordan Ugalde: And even, there's an earthquake.

Jordan Ugalde: And they made like *vrmm vrmm*.

Kevin Coulter: I need to watch this movie immediately that's.

Jordan Ugalde: Yeah there are better Miyazaki films, but just for that, that alone makes it worth at least seeing once it's fun it's a lot of fun.

Jordan Ugalde: Yeah.

Jordan Ugalde: So as an independent voice actor, what is your day to day life, I mean it's you're going to be very self directed, but how is that for you.

Kevin Coulter: Um I.

Kevin Coulter: I very recently made the discovery that whatever the opposite of a morning person I absolutely am.

Kevin Coulter: So before recently, I was like getting out of bed, and like forcing myself to do voiceover before I got like anything fun done, and then I found myself, just like sitting in my room doing nothing for hours because I couldn't get myself to do it um.

Kevin Coulter: But now I finally got to the point where I like, I wake up and I like get myself ready to start going and I like kind of exercise a bit, but for the, in terms of voiceover in general, specifically, it's I'll spend a few hours going through social medias, LinkedIn, all the websites.

Kevin Coulter: That I'm subscribed to, to find auditions that kind of call to me and then I'll just make like a big list of them.

Kevin Coulter: And then I turn on my recording software and walk into my booth and basically don't come out until I

Kevin Coulter: recorded all of them.

Kevin Coulter: And I do not like editing I'm not a big fan.

Kevin Coulter: So I definitely procrastinate before I start editing but.

Kevin Coulter: Usually someone yells at me like stop being a little bitch.

Kevin Coulter: In the next however many hours editing and then send those in and then closer to the end of the day, I like see like who haven't I emailed to reach out to in a while to see if they need more help or.

Kevin Coulter: Things like that and send in all the the auditions and thankfully, I have a like send this email in the morning, instead of at 10pm when I'm finished.

Jordan Ugalde: Oh man, oh there's definitely been times, where I I write the email as like 1am.

Jordan Ugalde: And it's like man I'm not gonna send this now because that presents the wrong face, you know.

Kevin Coulter: Exactly.

Jordan Ugalde: I am a hard worker, but I don't necessarily want to,

Jordan Ugalde: you gotta cultivate the persona a bit.

Kevin Coulter: Yeah yeah yeah.

Kevin Coulter: I'm doing all the work and it's all getting done on time, but I don't want you to think it's not, because it's 2am.

Tyler T Hamer: Yes, I've done the opposite I've like had my delays send the email at 4am so my Professor and advisor's like he must be working really late.

Kevin Coulter: Maybe I should take that strategy.

Jordan Ugalde: Yeah.

Jordan Ugalde: Oh, oh you're working that late into the night?

Tyler T Hamer: Take a break like.

Jordan Ugalde: Ok I'll pay you double.

Jordan Ugalde: So dedicated to the craft, working

Jordan Ugalde: 24/7

Tyler T Hamer: Damn

Tyler T Hamer: So I guess in that schedule like how many.

Tyler T Hamer: Do you say, you know you said you, you find, like a number of listings you go through the whole rigmarole.

Tyler T Hamer: And you do the recordings for them like, how many listings are you finding on average, is it like is it like when it rains it pours you get like 20 listings all of a suddenly that you're interested in, or is it like you find one here there, how was um.

Kevin Coulter: I think, depending on where you're looking you're going to get various degrees of success.

Kevin Coulter: If you're looking for unpaid things it's like always when it rains it pours.

Kevin Coulter: You need to make money so that's not really what you want the whole time.

Kevin Coulter: Um but I'm like one website like if I pick, for example, I'll get like at least five new ones, a day.

Kevin Coulter: That are like only the ones that are like 60% match or higher so like of course they're getting way more than that.

Kevin Coulter: On the website so sifting through like all the emails I've gotten since the last time I checked and there's

Kevin Coulter: a large number of things that you can do per day, I mean there's, there, I just read a tweet about someone who is like I decided last month to push my boundaries for voiceover and I did 70 auditions in two days and.

Tyler T Hamer: That's insane.

Kevin Coulter: Yeah there's also like a huge grind culture in in voiceover.

Kevin Coulter: Social media, I don't know if it extends to all voice actors, but, like all of them are like yeah I can barely speak and I have recordings six times today.

Kevin Coulter: I'm like hooked up to tubes in the hospital and I still sent out two auditions.

Tyler T Hamer: Oh no I'm literally darth vader.

Tyler T Hamer: So I might as well do his voice over.

Kevin Coulter: It concerns me a little bit when people are like yeah I got really sick, but that just means that I can play deeper like gravelly characters better, I'm like please take care of your voice.

Tyler T Hamer: But also like you can't get called back if you can only do it while sick.

Jordan Ugalde: I need to get sick again, I could do this voice only while sick.

Kevin Coulter: Spit on me.

Jordan Ugalde: Oh man.

Jordan Ugalde: This is just there.

Jordan Ugalde: In college, I was doing musical theatre and uh I had to do a very high tenor part like a very, very high notes and we have some parties.

Jordan Ugalde: The musical

Jordan Ugalde: theatre group had some parties, and so the night before one of our last shows that is actually the show that got recorded.

Kevin Coulter: and distributed

Jordan Ugalde: I lost my entire upper range.

Jordan Ugalde: And and the thing is, I had this big solo number, where I supposed to.

Jordan Ugalde: supposed to go all the way up there, and that did not exist.

Jordan Ugalde: What the fuck am I supposed to do I.

Jordan Ugalde: And in,

Jordan Ugalde: And the thing is he supposed to be like a very like not necessarily naive, but like more boyish character, but my voice is like.

Jordan Ugalde: Like down here.

Jordan Ugalde: Yeah and so yeah for that for that piece, I was don't like doing that elevator escalation up to the high note and I just dropped down to like little miss Woods comma L.

Kevin Coulter: Hit puberty halfway through the song yeah.

Jordan Ugalde: Yeah so I can't imagine actively

Jordan Ugalde: celebrating not.

Kevin Coulter: I don't know if it's necessarily celebrating but

Kevin Coulter: there's like I feel like sometimes there are is like a big culture around like, if you take a break you're failing.

Tyler T Hamer: That's MIT undergrad.

Tyler T Hamer: Like we we had just sweatshirts that said sleep is for the weak and then

Tyler T Hamer: you go to Grad school you're like no sleep is for the strong.

Kevin Coulter: Sleep is for the people that went to a different school.

Kevin Coulter: I'm catching up now.

Jordan Ugalde: I feel in any of the.

Jordan Ugalde: Because in startup culture as well, there's very much, if you aren't working 80 hours a week you're a failure and, like in all these different disciplines,

Jordan Ugalde: it's it's understandable. It's understandable that because it's so competitive and so hard to succeed, it makes sense that working so hard to, at the craft at your dream.

Jordan Ugalde: Is.

Jordan Ugalde: It is made such a priority as a goal, but I think there's

Jordan Ugalde: almost a perverseness in the level of celebration of this suffering itself rather than in working to hone your specific craft I agree 100%.

Kevin Coulter: I agree 100%

Tyler T Hamer: Yeah I think it also comes from the fact that, like when there's like, especially in like environments like startups where there's a lot of uncertainty.

Tyler T Hamer: You know the hours, like the masochism kind of becomes a proxy for like, like if you were if you knew you were doing stuff that was always going to yield value, you would you would feel good.

Tyler T Hamer: But since you're doing a lot of nebulous things they're like well I put it, I feel bad, so I must be doing it correct like.

Jordan Ugalde: Yeah yeah and, like, I would say honestly being a self employed voice actor, that is its own form of entrepreneurship and entrepreneurship is so stressfully nebulous for you, you don't know if anything is working until you have a paycheck and even then how consistent is it?

Jordan Ugalde: Like how much money, are you actually regularly bringing in?

Jordan Ugalde: Am I? And, and also it doesn't help that the world moves so fast now, so

Jordan Ugalde: if you aren't always on top of your game,

Jordan Ugalde: it's not inevitable that you will fall behind but there's a higher likelihood.

Kevin Coulter: Yeah absolutely I, there's definitely a lot of like, you audition for like months at a time and nobody's biting and you're just like am I like bad at this craft now like what am I doing wrong and like it really does start to get to you.

Kevin Coulter: But then like after that month dry spell or however long you'll get like every single thing you audition for you're getting and you're like wait now hold on.

Kevin Coulter: I didn't do anything different, what happened?

Kevin Coulter: So it's like, I understand the thought process of like I don't know what's coming, so I have to constantly keep moving, but I'm also have the mindset of like if you aren't protecting your instrument, if you aren't protecting the thing that's making your money which is like your your voice.

Kevin Coulter: Because that's what you're performing with, or even like your your mental health your sanity, like you're not going to make as good acting choices if you're not like all there if you're if you're burnt out like that's going to come across in

Kevin Coulter: your performance.

Kevin Coulter: So it's, it's very hard to find a balance of like I need to keep going, because this is my livelihood and I need to take a break, to take care of myself, which is like.

Kevin Coulter: Every single voice actor will tell you this exact same struggle.

Tyler T Hamer: Man.

Jordan Ugalde: Yeah Tyler I'm sure you can relate to this given like where I didn't see you for weeks if not months when you when you were working on your thesis.

Tyler T Hamer: Yeah the last two months, it was, I mean Grad school is always a pain right, it was like 60 hours during normal at, normal time and thesis was bad thesis was like.

Tyler T Hamer: 70 hours, but those last two months, I guess, when you start working 14 hours a day times seven like yeah it just was I'm glad it's over.

Tyler T Hamer: Well, I mean it's it's, it was like the last final like push.

Kevin Coulter: I would not come out sane, that's wild.

Tyler T Hamer: I gained like.

Tyler T Hamer: 20 pounds, you know, and like so everyone's like oh yeah it's just pandemic and I was like no I was thesis like.

Kevin Coulter: I totally understand that.

Jordan Ugalde: Yeah yeah I, there are a lot of people I have known who in the path of pursuing,

Jordan Ugalde: not not even necessarily their passion, but something very important to them.

Jordan Ugalde: There's all, there can be, not always, but there can be a lot of sacrifice of the only way I can accomplish this goal is by stripping everything else out and making it happen and sometimes that like.

Jordan Ugalde: What I think is the kind of terrible thing about it is sometimes you can do all of that sacrifice and you don't get anything.

Tyler T Hamer: Yeah yeah.

Jordan Ugalde: Like one of my old bosses.

Jordan Ugalde: Her first startup, she and all of her co founders they got nothing.

Jordan Ugalde: Because venture money is, it's a hit or miss thing if you if you make it to the billionaire's club then venture money is great if you don't, you get nothing and so she got nothing from that and

Jordan Ugalde: she went straight from that into making another startup.

Jordan Ugalde: So you think she didn't learn, but the second one worked out, but in both in both cases.

Jordan Ugalde: It was just burning all the oil to try and make it so.

Jordan Ugalde: But at the same time that's, in the marathon that is life that's not really a way to live your entire life.

Kevin Coulter: The candle that burdens twice as the hot burns twice as fast something like that.

Jordan Ugalde: Yeah so how do you balance trying to make this lifestyle work for you, with trying to live.

Kevin Coulter: That's a great question.

Kevin Coulter: I actually have had struggles with mental health like literally as long as I can remember um so when it comes down to anything if I feel like it's.

Kevin Coulter: The way that I'm continuing is having a negative effect on my mental health, I really have to like take a step back, because I like fall into pits very easily.

Kevin Coulter: So the way that I've tried to balance it is, if I do feel like I'm burning out I can work on.

Kevin Coulter: Improving my skills in like a passive way, instead of like an active way where I can like listen to other voice actors talk, or like listen to performances, or like just read out loud to people, which is a great way to practice.

Kevin Coulter: It's the easiest and cheapest way to practice um and it's like I'm still feeling my passion, but I'm allowing myself and my body the time to rest. And like I mean, of course, building a good support network that like will point out hey I haven't seen you in two months, like everything good?

Kevin Coulter: But like just finding a routine that you hold yourself to is probably the best way, and when I say hold myself I don't mean like.

Kevin Coulter: You;e voice acting every day, I mean like these are the hours that I'm voice acting and if something is like really important than sure I can push it, but just stick to these hours because the more I, I push on those hours, the more it seeps and takes over my entire life.

Kevin Coulter: You have to treat it like a real job like it is my passion and it is like something I love and if I could spend all day, every day, doing it, I would, but then I would hate it, so I don't.

Jordan Ugalde: Yeah yeah um so you just a few minutes ago you mentioned burnout and when you notice you're burning out there are steps you can take but.

Jordan Ugalde: One thing that I've, I know for myself is that

Jordan Ugalde: it's a lot easier to realize oh shit I'm burned out rather than you know,

Jordan Ugalde: I think I'm I think I'm on track to burning out.

Kevin Coulter: Yeah.

Jordan Ugalde: So, given, given what I'm sure plenty of experiences burning out or like having that sensation.

Jordan Ugalde: Have you gotten any better at seeing it coming?

Kevin Coulter: Absolutely not.

Kevin Coulter: I'm like in the middle of a session and I'm like I just can't, I can't get this character done.

Kevin Coulter: Like I can't convey the emotion I'm looking for. Oh, I need to go to sleep.

Jordan Ugalde: Oh damn I was really hoping you'd have an answer for me because.

Kevin Coulter: I

Kevin Coulter: do have like, it's it's noticing patterns for me, my insomnia gets way worse when I'm burning out and I, like the the dark thoughts get worse when I'm burning out and like.

Kevin Coulter: All of the things that come with burnout like I just tried to be I don't know slightly more cognizant of like.

Kevin Coulter: Okay, I had this I felt bad this day and I had insomnia this day, I'm going to I'm going to track this keep it like in a mental note, or even a physical note, if I think it's that important.

Kevin Coulter: And if it becomes a pattern I'm probably burning out, but if it's just one night, then you know I had one bad night, and I can keep going.

Jordan Ugalde: Yeah.

Tyler T Hamer: Yeah that's been mostly my experience with like dealing with burnout was, because I was in Grad school it's like very easy to burn out.

Tyler T Hamer: Yeah and.

Tyler T Hamer: Like at the end of thesis because I had to do insane hours, I was definitely burning out, but like back in the beginning, where I was like trying to figure out a life balance, I think.

Tyler T Hamer: Like similar to what you were saying Kevin it's like I said, like these are going to be the hours, I try to go to campus and do work.

Tyler T Hamer: And the minute I started deviating from those hours and stuff, it started like I had to miss like dance class, I'm like well that's not sustainable and that kind of became like the sanity check. So like for at least for me with burn out I just it's somewhat like you, like with the pattern matching.

Kevin Coulter: I think it's a lot easier to

Kevin Coulter: set up a routine that helps you prevent it from ever happening than it is to notice, while it's happening.

Tyler T Hamer: Yeah I'd say so.

Jordan Ugalde: Yeah definitely, but I would say.

Jordan Ugalde: You can't even begin to prepare for it until you've experienced at least once.

Kevin Coulter: Yeah absolutely.

Tyler T Hamer: Absolutely, yes yeah.

Jordan Ugalde: And and honestly I think one of the big keys to doing anything this hard of trying to, this this psychological a demanding where you're not just following a pre-scripted path.

Jordan Ugalde: Is you have to get that experience of burnout and learn how to develop coping mechanisms to make it to the other side like.

Jordan Ugalde: If

Jordan Ugalde: to touch on startups a bit if I were to ever form a start up with a co-founder I would definitely make for certain they had burned out.

Jordan Ugalde: At least once in their lives.

Jordan Ugalde: And I remember talking to one person about that, that idea, that I think it's important for someone to have gone through that.

Jordan Ugalde: And he said yeah you know I burned out in my car the other day, so I.

Jordan Ugalde: And I was like Oh. No.

Jordan Ugalde: Completely wrong direction.

Kevin Coulter: Yeah I watched Initial D like I know what that is.

Jordan Ugalde: Yeah I had Deja Vu.

Jordan Ugalde: It's wild how

Jordan Ugalde: different the experiences can be from just the the traditional narrative like

Jordan Ugalde: for you, when you were when you were jumping from the standard job, like standard path to voice acting.

Jordan Ugalde: What was that, like, for you like, how did the people in your life respond, how did you handle it?

Kevin Coulter: Oh gosh um so I.

Kevin Coulter: A majority of my life I.

Kevin Coulter: Gosh how do I, how do I even start so okay.

Tyler T Hamer: Beginning.

Kevin Coulter: So I had a big struggle of.

Kevin Coulter: doing the, the battle between doing what I cared about and what like made me feel whole as a person versus what society or my family expecting of me.

Kevin Coulter: So I spent a lot of my life kind of like running away from voiceover.

Kevin Coulter: Like telling people like oh yeah I do voiceover but I wasn't actually like doing it, I would like, I had a mic and I would audition for things, occasionally, and I would take classes, occasionally, but I wasn't like,

Kevin Coulter: diving in, I was always like focused on whatever my traditional career was. I like contracted at Google for a while and I worked for a few like HR staffing companies and like very, very traditional career paths and I was like.

Kevin Coulter: While I was at Google, I was like coming home every day like completely drained like I was, I was great at my job, but I, it just killed my soul to be in the office and like stare at a computer screen for hours and.

Kevin Coulter: Like my whole team was great, like I loved everyone that I worked with, my boss was fantastic it was just like the work made me not want to do it.

Kevin Coulter: Ym and then, when I worked at the HR staffing company, it was like one of the worst experiences of my entire life I was like, it was a very small company, and it was.

Kevin Coulter: Like there was a like a lot of demands, because the work or the staff was so small that, like everybody had to wear a bunch of hats and like I wasn't

Kevin Coulter: told this coming in, like I don't even think I received a job description when I came in.

Kevin Coulter: And they

Kevin Coulter: switched up my roles on me constantly and I was like stressed out of my mind, I was working, I was working way more than I was told I would have to work, on top of having to commute like an hour and a half.

Tyler T Hamer: Oh that's brutal yeah.

Kevin Coulter: It was miserable I had, I was getting home cooking and then going to bed, so I could go back to work, and then I just kind of had the moment where I was like is this how I want the rest of my life to be like.

Tyler T Hamer: Yeah.

Kevin Coulter: Like do I want to keep doing these things that make me feel like I'm not human. Like at the HR staffing company, I was working with executive level people only and the people that we were placing their hiring bonus was bigger than my yearly salary.

Tyler T Hamer: That's bullshit.

Kevin Coulter: It was such an invalidating experience I was like is this what I want to do like I'm helping rich people get richer like.

Kevin Coulter: I'm not enriching myself I'm I don't know. So once my time at that company ended.

Kevin Coulter: I

Kevin Coulter: really had to like buckle down and like discover like do I want to continue pursuing the traditional career that I know I can succeed at, and I know will provide me like a

Kevin Coulter: future that isn't stressful, but I won't like be happy or do I do this thing that I know brings like my soul joy and, eventually, I was like, I'm not living unless I'm living, so I'm going to go do that, and then I had to convince, like all of my family that I wasn't insane.

Tyler T Hamer: Oh man.

Kevin Coulter: Which absolutely didn't come until I got paid for the first time.

Tyler T Hamer: Yeah.

Kevin Coulter: And even then it was like well you got one payment, but is it really, like can you do this sustainably and I had to like keep working at it.

Kevin Coulter: Just recently, I finished a role as like a voiceover director for an indie video game, and that was the point where I was like, I told my family and they're like oh so that is a job, like you can do that and make money.

Tyler T Hamer: Oh man.

Kevin Coulter: It's definitely like.

Kevin Coulter: A battle that you have to have with yourself and

Kevin Coulter: potentially everyone around you to like. No, this is what I, like it's not that I want to do this it's I need to do this, like I I'm not me unless I'm doing this, and I think like.

Kevin Coulter: If you have that approach to whatever you're passionate about like that will come out in whatever your product is, and I think people really resonate with that and they can like,

Kevin Coulter: feel that in the finished product, and I think that definitely helps with whatever path you choose to go down.

Jordan Ugalde: Yeah, but I would say, for that recognition to happen at the same time, you need to let that be seen like if you aren't if you're not marching

Jordan Ugalde: your personal brand.

Jordan Ugalde: Then even though you do have this passion, you have this fire it,

Jordan Ugalde: like, coming from an engineering background there's a very common mentality of if you just build it right, people will come people.

Jordan Ugalde: People like

Jordan Ugalde: good things so, I made a good thing,

Jordan Ugalde: people will use it. But the thing is, people like, you have to know your thing exists.

Jordan Ugalde: So you can have all the passion and love in the world, but if you don't.

Jordan Ugalde: Actively tell people it and

Jordan Ugalde: more than just tell people sell people because it

Jordan Ugalde: Tyler

Jordan Ugalde: your research was really interesting reading trying to read your thesis like,

Jordan Ugalde: I could.

Jordan Ugalde: I know it's not meant for the layman but like having that level of just

Jordan Ugalde: Harsh technicality.

Jordan Ugalde: You're not gonna sell anyone

Jordan Ugalde: on that.

Tyler T Hamer: Oh yeah.

Jordan Ugalde: But if you tweet at Elon Musk hey we can make your your satellites like a fraction of the cost cheaper then whoo whoom and then, especially if you put some memes in there, like really.

Tyler T Hamer: No, I mean that's fair.

Tyler T Hamer: I mean it's like yeah my thesis I wrote as not for sales, I wrote as a manual that's why it's so gritty and.

Tyler T Hamer: But, like you know you you're right about the whole selling yourself stuff because part of when I was selling it was going to conferences and writing journal articles and

Tyler T Hamer: conference papers in academia and that's I mean that's honestly, one of the reasons I went to like a government lab is like I like doing the work.

Tyler T Hamer: And I like selling the work in terms of like doing presentations like going in front of a government sponsor showing the, like showing off, that I like. I don't like being like here's this rat race of writing papers like I was like no not doing this.

Kevin Coulter: I think that's a, I think that's a really interesting point of like.

Kevin Coulter: It, finding your passion and like finding your way.

Kevin Coulter: To,

Kevin Coulter: to sell yourself you're like.

Kevin Coulter: You don't want to do the rat race, so you found the way that you make it work for you and I think for voiceover a lot of people have different ways of advertising themselves, like someone I follow does like daily posts on Instagram and then like a weekly

Kevin Coulter: like lesson and they like that's how they're marketing themselves, and then, on the other hand, I follow people who like they're huge and then they're selling point is I shit post like.

Kevin Coulter: So it's it's really like.

Kevin Coulter: If you have the passion to make it work, you are going to find out how to sell yourself, you are

Kevin Coulter: going to like

Kevin Coulter: want to explore the ways to make it matter, not only to you, but to show that it matters to someone else because it does matter.

Jordan Ugalde: Yeah I would say, I would say you're not necessarily going to, but you need to.

Kevin Coulter: Yes, yeah yes.

Tyler T Hamer: Yeah and I think part of kind of like knowing something you're passionate about is if if there is a way you can show it off that's like natural for you right? If

Tyler T Hamer: the traditional way doesn't work but there's like an alternative way to show off and you're still passionate about it, but if you really don't want anyone knowing you're doing this like it's not you know this isn't really a passion.

Kevin Coulter: I mean, maybe your passion is building legos that nobody gets to see and like

Kevin Coulter: that can be your passion that's,

Kevin Coulter: that's it that's fine, but if you want to make money building legos maybe take.

Tyler T Hamer: That's fair.

Kevin Coulter: pictures and posted on Instagram.

Jordan Ugalde: Yeah but some people have done stuff like that, like take pictures of miniatures and that are stylized and made a living.

Kevin Coulter: Absolutely absolutely oh.

Tyler T Hamer: Yeah people do with food, all the time, too.

Jordan Ugalde: Yeah and I.

Jordan Ugalde: I think, even though I have a lot of mixed feelings about social media, it has allowed a lot more people.

Jordan Ugalde: To effectively start their own businesses or start or find their own ways of making a living for themselves that really wasn't

Jordan Ugalde: possible without this global marketing platform that is social media and one thing I will say is, if you treat social media as a marketing platform, rather than an extension of your

Jordan Ugalde: personal persona it's a lot easier to not get destroyed.

Jordan Ugalde: When it isn't necessarily received the best or like one thing hits but the other thing doesn't because you

Kevin Coulter: Right.

Jordan Ugalde: can have this detached approach of I'm trying to market my brand rather than this is me and I'm getting rejected by people.

Tyler T Hamer: Yeah.

Tyler T Hamer: I think it's a lot easier to get along those lines view it as like oh I'm like Spielberg, and this is someone reviewing my movie versus like oh I liked this girl and went out to ask them out and got shit on right.

Tyler T Hamer: Those are two very different things.

Kevin Coulter: I definitely I, I think there's absolutely a ton of voice actors that are like I am marketing my product and my product is my voice.

Kevin Coulter: But when I was doing that I, maybe I was just doing it wrong, like that's absolutely a possibility, it was just like a really invalidating experience for me like just boiling myself down into like.

Kevin Coulter: A product made me feel like I wasn't a human anymore, and so I don't know, for me as as as shitty as it feels to not get engagement when I like it like I still need that human element in whatever I'm selling.

Kevin Coulter: Especially because, like ultimately the product is me.

Kevin Coulter: Which is, voiceover, voice actors and I guess actors in general have to get very used to rejection.

Jordan Ugalde: Yeah.

Jordan Ugalde: That's fair.

Jordan Ugalde: Um.

Jordan Ugalde: Yeah my experience I briefly delved into the world of TikTok.

Jordan Ugalde: And I I was trying to make, so I was learning, I've been, I spent this past year, trying to get business like two businesses off the ground, so I was trying to learn a lot about that space and.

Jordan Ugalde: I wanted to create videos that were fun entertaining ways of like, sharing the lessons I learned, but because it's only like.

Jordan Ugalde: 30 seconds to a minute long, you have to really, that, it's really an art of simplifying into just the most basic idea that is going to get the details wrong.

Jordan Ugalde: But ideally is entertaining enough to like get some nuggets of truth and get people to look further and I had one video that actually got like a million views, and that was

Jordan Ugalde: really cool except a lot of people were.

Jordan Ugalde: A lot of people who had more business experience were like this is wildly misrepresenting the case and I was getting a lot of flak and I felt like shit.

Jordan Ugalde: I felt awful awful because, like, even though I was going into it like I knew I was

Jordan Ugalde: telling not a full picture, because I was, I was trying to do this juggling act, and I might have dropped a few balls in it, I still

Jordan Ugalde: for me, I still was putting a lot of my, even though is affecting different characters I actually would, was wearing different costumes and stuff.

Jordan Ugalde: Doing different voices.

Jordan Ugalde: I had like a.

Jordan Ugalde: nerdy, nerdy accountant voice like this

Jordan Ugalde: or a bro tank and like affected my So Cal vibes bro.

Jordan Ugalde: Um.

Jordan Ugalde: But they're still even with those characters, there was still a lot of a lot of myself in there.

Jordan Ugalde: and so.

Jordan Ugalde: I wouldn't necessarily say.

Jordan Ugalde: I would say I'm very much a hypocrite in saying the idea of separating oneself from the persona but that at least feels like a, in some ways a safer way to go, but also not, as you were mentioning not necessarily authentic.

Jordan Ugalde: or even.

Kevin Coulter: Well.

Jordan Ugalde: Sustainable.

Tyler T Hamer: So maybe it's it's kind of like right, you have the two extremes you just have to be like some healthy mix in the middle right it's like.

Tyler T Hamer: it's like when you first start dating where you're like you want to be out there and you're really vulnerable and then you get hurt really bad and you're like okay, I still want to be vulnerable I just can't be like you know, like first person that says hi to me I'm in love with them right.

Tyler T Hamer: You.

Jordan Ugalde: You can. You can.

Tyler T Hamer: But it's right, you want to you're putting yourself out there, but you just have to have some defense mechanism, because it is going to be harsh.

Kevin Coulter: Finding finding the right balance of this is the real me, but like I'm still selling you a product and I'm not gonna let it, it's not a reflection on me if you don't buy my product it's it's I didn't sell it the right way or you're not the right audience or.

Jordan Ugalde: Yeah oh man. Finding that balance is rough, especially when you're starting out trying to find your audience, like, because there's the difference between okay you're not my audience versus who the hell is my audience.

Kevin Coulter: I'm gonna market at everyone and see who's interested.

Jordan Ugalde: Yeah so like for you how did you niche down how did you find your unique brand, your unique niche, your customer base.

Kevin Coulter: For voiceover in general um I actually had a wonderful private coach who like went through all of the styles of commercial voiceover.

Kevin Coulter: To find out what my like, money voice was, um which ended up being the like, it's called retail voiceover and it's the like "50% off" like way too excited and happy.

Kevin Coulter: It's so having that direction, having someone else who's been doing it for years, be like hey this is gonna make you money like you're good at all of these other things, but this is the thing that's,

Kevin Coulter: gonna make you money.

Kevin Coulter: Was like a great resource for me, but then like finding the authentic me on

Kevin Coulter: like social media or whatever was actually like a whole conversation, like many sessions, with my therapist.

Jordan Ugalde: Oh man.

Kevin Coulter: I'm feeling really invalidated I feel like people aren't engaging with me and I'm not my authentic self and they were like what if you just were

Kevin Coulter: your authentic self, and I was like is that allowed?

Kevin Coulter: So they tried to walk me through that process, and they have no idea how to be a voiceover.

Kevin Coulter: Yeah I you know I I tried to being my authentic self and like posting shit posts or like just things that I think, or like ideas that I have and being like true to me, but still like focusing on the fact that I'm a voiceover, voiceover actor.

Kevin Coulter: Was I don't know I just it just fell into place, I guess, I lucked out.

Jordan Ugalde: Yeah.

Jordan Ugalde: Um something that I am curious about given what you just said is.

Jordan Ugalde: And something, so something that's been a challenge for me.

Jordan Ugalde: I have recently found a therapist that is very

Jordan Ugalde: good at working with me in my specific niche of I'm trying to start my own businesses. So for you like you were mentioning how your therapist doesn't really, your therapist is not a voice actor and if they are, how do they have time to be a therapist.

Jordan Ugalde: So.

Jordan Ugalde: how do you

Jordan Ugalde: actually make sure you're getting the advice that you think is valuable for you?

Kevin Coulter: Oh God.

Kevin Coulter: I mean.

Kevin Coulter: As I mentioned earlier, like focusing more on my mental health is going to allow me to focus on producing the best product so working with my therapist was more how do I make this sustainable for me and less like how do I market myself.

Kevin Coulter: Because, if I can keep myself sustainable I can eventually find the thing that works and I'm going to find that by talking to people in the industry.

Kevin Coulter: Getting advice from them, taking classes, or even just making connections and things like that, but I think finding that like authentic version of me that I can portray on the Internet was like

Kevin Coulter: very much

Kevin Coulter: a process with my therapist of like here's the advice I've been given, here's what I've read, but I can't consolidate that with who I am and them, just like listening to my ideas and

Kevin Coulter: not necessarily giving me advice, but like encouraging me to go in the directions that I was already like pushing myself in but just needed that a little bit of encouragement to get there.

Kevin Coulter: So it wasn't so much them being like oh no, you need to do this, this, and this, it was like yeah I've been doing this and it's not working, and I feel like shit and they were like well what other ideas do you have, and I was like oh, I can do this and they're like why don't you do that.

Kevin Coulter: Sorry go ahead.

Tyler T Hamer: Oh, I should say it's just that little push you need right it's like.

Kevin Coulter: Exactly, exactly so like working in therapy for me wasn't like it wasn't like a master class in marketing it was like

Kevin Coulter: Stop being a baby and do the thing you say you're gonna do.

Tyler T Hamer: So your,

Tyler T Hamer: so your therapist isn't Gordon Ramsay then?

Jordan Ugalde: I'm not sure if that would be a good experience.

Jordan Ugalde: I wouldn't feel safe.

Tyler T Hamer: You'd probably called an idiot sandwich a lot so.

Kevin Coulter: I am, I am full of carbs.

Kevin Coulter: I think Steve Blum actually has a master class on voiceover so maybe.

Tyler T Hamer: I've never used MasteCclass so I just, I think, I've just, like that's why I keep making fun of it.

Kevin Coulter: Last Christmas my brother got me a year subscription and I haven't even activated it.

Tyler T Hamer: They're never going to be a sponsor.

Kevin Coulter: I watched every single class on there and they're amazing.

Jordan Ugalde: Every single product and service that exists today is amazing and worthy of being marketed, especially if you pay us money.

Jordan Ugalde: Yeah.

Jordan Ugalde: there.

Jordan Ugalde: There is almost a level of

Jordan Ugalde: I'm gonna say self prostitution, that you have to do if you are going to make

Jordan Ugalde: yourself, like if you're done carve your own way there's a level of and I don't mean that derogatory I mean, like you are,

Jordan Ugalde: you're I mean it's you're making a business of yourself and

Jordan Ugalde: that shit's scary.

Jordan Ugalde: Like.

Jordan Ugalde: One thing that I would say, I did not have a full appreciation of going into this is just how nebulous it can be.

Jordan Ugalde: How have you dealt with the all the uncertainty that comes with this path?

Kevin Coulter: There's a a quote that shows up in like the whole voiceover social media, like every coach is going to give it to you, but like, speaking of auditions specifically it's send and forget.

Kevin Coulter: Because if you're really excited about something, and you send them the audition and you're like sitting at your computer waiting to hear from them like.

Kevin Coulter: You might never hear from them, they might like you might not get the role and a lot of times, if you don't get the role you don't even get an email. Like you need to, you need to send it and then it needs to immediately leave your mind as hard as that is.

Kevin Coulter: You, you send in the audition and then you move on to the next step, and if you focus on, hopefully if you focus on constantly taking the next step, assuming you're going in the right direction you're going to make it somewhere.

Kevin Coulter: and

Kevin Coulter: that might not be what your goal was when you set off on the journey but you, if you keep taking the next step you're going to find yourself in some place that hopefully you're happy with.

Jordan Ugalde: Yeah.

Kevin Coulter: It's a lot of like,

Kevin Coulter: reminding yourself that you are taking the right steps and finding ways to keep yourself motivated, keep yourself like focused, constantly be learning constantly be absorbing new information.

Kevin Coulter: But just forgetting about it, if it's not working out which is so hard to do and it's like there's not really a way to do that.

Jordan Ugalde: Yeah.

Kevin Coulter: Like give advice on how to not be stressed.

Jordan Ugalde: You just turn it off, like a light switch.

Kevin Coulter: You know it's like a light switch.

Jordan Ugalde: Put it in a box and just like.

Jordan Ugalde: Forget about over there.

Kevin Coulter: I'll deal with this later.

Kevin Coulter: But yeah it's it's.

Kevin Coulter: Especially with voiceover you're going to get hundreds of more rejections than you'll ever get roles and if you start basing your success on,

Kevin Coulter: your percentage of landing you're not going to ever feel good about yourself, and you, you need to find like.

Kevin Coulter: Either you have to convince yourself that each audition is a new experience that you're gaining something from or you have to get like know that the right role is coming, and I think something that I learned from.

Kevin Coulter: Crispin Freeman's class was.

Kevin Coulter: He was interviewing some voice actor who kind of broke it down into like when you are being rejected, it is not

Kevin Coulter: anything about you as a person it's not an evaluation of your character you just weren't the right fit for this role, like you weren't, you're not a bad actor you just weren't the right actor for this.

Kevin Coulter: And that's it doesn't say anything about you, you just have to go and find the thing that you fit and I think he said, like every no gets you one step closer to the yes.

Tyler T Hamer: Yeah I mean it's it's one of the things in research that people under appreciate is like when you prove a result false, it then sends you in the direction, the new direction that your like dissertation can be about or like.

Tyler T Hamer: Finding the actual solution it's it's more like practice you're moving the right direction, because the process of elimination.

Kevin Coulter: Yeah.

Tyler T Hamer: It's

Tyler T Hamer: tedious but.

Jordan Ugalde: I think it's important to have that mindset, but it can also be

Jordan Ugalde: hard to maintain.

Kevin Coulter: Absolutely, I mean.

Kevin Coulter: That where doubt comes in.

Jordan Ugalde: Yeah because eventually, okay yeah all these nos, are helping guide me to a yes. Is that within the next year? The next 10 years?

Kevin Coulter: Am I going to be able to afford rent in time?

Jordan Ugalde: Yeah.

Jordan Ugalde: Because there

Jordan Ugalde: I think the devil in the details of this is that

Jordan Ugalde: there are some times, where you need to work on yourself in order to show, and the role but and but at the same time, there are other times, where you aren't the right fit and, in general, you might not be the right fit either because of your experience or just your fit for the role.

Jordan Ugalde: And so it's,

Jordan Ugalde: it's hard, I have found it difficult to consistently maintain the right mindset, even if you know necessarily the right tool, or you know some tools to think about it in a framework that works for you.

Jordan Ugalde: Maintaining that can be a challenge, sometimes.

Kevin Coulter: I.

Kevin Coulter: Just thinking about that now actually I, when I do find myself this actually happened to me incredibly recently when I do find myself in those like ruts where I'm like I'm not getting any

Kevin Coulter: hooks I'm like not getting any audition or I'm not getting any roles that I auditioned for like, I feel like I'm maybe I'm just not the actor that I thought I was.

Kevin Coulter: What I actually ended up doing was, so I was focusing like really heavily on character voiceover and I just wasn't getting anything.

Kevin Coulter: and

Kevin Coulter: I like took a step back, I signed up for some classes, I was like are my skills not there, like what's the issue and then like I was getting good feedback from coaches and like hearing good things, and I was like I don't know what's happening, and I still feel like shit.

Kevin Coulter: So I just like completely pivoted to something that I know I can do, and that I know will work, so I went back to like my moneymaker voice, and I was auditioning for those retail roles where like.

Kevin Coulter: Just be cheery and happy and like I was like immediately landing things so like finding ways to.

Kevin Coulter: Re-validate yourself, when you get in that that mindset like things nice work either like doing more research getting like,

Kevin Coulter: talking to someone you know you can trust, even if they're not in the same industry like, hey I'm feeling like shit and I need like encouragement to keep going, or like taking classes, or just taking a step back to like.

Kevin Coulter: Reevaluate because when you're when you're in the grind it's hard to notice like what you might be doing wrong.

Kevin Coulter: Or it might be hard to notice what you might like be hyper focusing on or like whatever is causing your your mental duress and when you when you give yourself that time to take a step back, which I absolutely had to do.

Kevin Coulter: I was able to be like, oh no I'm feeling like shit because I don't have a ton of experience with this and, like while I can do it like I can't do it as well as these other people, so I need to like practice that so I can do it, but also work on the things that I know I can do.

Jordan Ugalde: Yeah.

Kevin Coulter: And that was a, that like completely revitalized me.

Jordan Ugalde: Yeah like having not necessarily the easy wins, but just having wins.

Kevin Coulter: Exactly exactly.

Jordan Ugalde: Yeah.

Jordan Ugalde: It can very much it's, especially when you're trying to do something that you aren't already identified as a master of, if you're trying to break into something, it can be overwhelming to just.

Jordan Ugalde: it's like you're either in or you're out.

Jordan Ugalde: And it's, it's so important to stress the wins and get the wins when you can get them.

Kevin Coulter: Yeah and finding ways to like remind you how to get those wins.

Jordan Ugalde: Yes, yeah yeah.

Jordan Ugalde: Yeah it's,

Jordan Ugalde: I think it can be easy to be single minded towards a goal to your own detriment.

Jordan Ugalde: And I think part of pursuing these lives of passion is being able to recognize that and have people to lean on to give you a different perspective.

Jordan Ugalde: Like our mutual friend Ryan.

Jordan Ugalde: We have been like co working every day for a while and.

Jordan Ugalde: that's been.

Jordan Ugalde: very helpful, there have been times, where he's been able to provide feedback for me, I can provide feedback for him.

Jordan Ugalde: And even though we are working on in different spaces not just not just physically but, but overall.

Jordan Ugalde: There still is the ability to provide that different perspective and sometimes you need to get out of your own head. It's hard to get out of your own head when you have your own head.

Jordan Ugalde: You need another head.

Kevin Coulter: They do say two heads are better than one.

Kevin Coulter: I actually on in a very similar way, I have a bunch of friends who are animators and artists.

Kevin Coulter: and

Kevin Coulter: very similar like you're either in or you're out type of situation, they kind of get in their head where like my my art isn't good and then I'm.

Kevin Coulter: I might be in the same place, like my voiceover isn't good, so I have those people to like where we can come back to each other and be like hey I recorded this or I drew this can you tell me like genuinely.

Kevin Coulter: how you feel about it, or like how does it compare to whoever I'm trying to compare with or like even even a Ryan, the same person like I think every Friday at like two he's like you need to tell me what you've been working on, and I have to tell you what I've been working on, so we can.

Kevin Coulter: help each other stay focused.

Kevin Coulter: So yeah definitely finding those ways to keep yourself focused and to keep yourself like encourage building those support groups in your life.

Kevin Coulter: finding ways to keep yourself inspired which is like the hardest thing about pursuing a passion and turning your passion into your career is.

Kevin Coulter: The passion might not be as strong as you are hoping, or it might burn out and finding ways to relight those fires if it really is that important to you like, reminding yourself why you've gone down this road, which, like I constantly have to do.

Jordan Ugalde: Right.

Jordan Ugalde: What what exercises, do you have for doing that? Like, how do you go about reigniting your own fire?

Kevin Coulter: Something that works for me is like going back to the basics doing like basic acting lessons or just like hopping in like a scene with voiceover friends or even my stage acting friends just.

Kevin Coulter: doing something fun where it like there's not pressure and like reminding myself like oh, I do love just portraying characters and things like that, but.

Kevin Coulter: Ultimately, like one of the main reasons that I got into voiceover was growing up and having all of those video games and cartoons and stuff like there are a lot of those have like impactful messages that like they try to pass on.

Tyler T Hamer: And like GI Joe.

Kevin Coulter: When there's smoke.

Kevin Coulter: I, like growing up, I was not in the healthiest home and probably did put a little bit too much of my mental health on those video games and like.

Kevin Coulter: animations or whatever, and like they'd got me through some hard times and like reminding myself that I might hopefully one day be able to make that impact on someone to get them through their hard times the same way that people helped me through my hard times is like.

Kevin Coulter: I lose sight of that when I'm like in the day to day grind like.

Jordan Ugalde: Yeah.

Kevin Coulter: I'm just I'm just selling things at Kohl's or whatever I'm selling selling sweatshirts like who am I helping and it's like no I am on the path to find the person who I'm going to help or like maybe someone really needed sweatshirts and they didn't know that they were half off.

Kevin Coulter: I'm the person that tells them that.

Jordan Ugalde: Well, I mean earlier, you told us about hundred.

Jordan Ugalde: percent off.

Tyler T Hamer: I thought, that would've got me in there.

Jordan Ugalde: I definitely need that.

Kevin Coulter: I'll let you know, the next time I do one of those.

Jordan Ugalde: Yeah so for you there in some ways voice acting is.

Jordan Ugalde: Providing for your younger self. Yeah, I can I can.

Jordan Ugalde: Imagine that.

Jordan Ugalde: Being very meaty in in terms of being motivating but also.

Tyler T Hamer: it's high stakes.

Jordan Ugalde: Yeah.

Kevin Coulter: Yeah because you don't want to let past you down.

Jordan Ugalde: You don't want let yourself down and.

Jordan Ugalde: Nah that sounds hard,

Jordan Ugalde: that sounds really hard.

Jordan Ugalde: Yeah I'd imagine you've talked with your therapist.

Kevin Coulter: Yeah.

Kevin Coulter: Definitely some sleepless nights of like if I don't do this like what do I have and.

Kevin Coulter: like reconciling that and like.

Kevin Coulter: finding a way to not put too much pressure on yourself like finding.

Kevin Coulter: The beauty in other things and allowing yourself to.

Kevin Coulter: explore those other things like I'm a very artistic person and like without art I don't really have, like I don't think life is worth living without art in some way.

Kevin Coulter: And I've noticed if I focus like entirely on voiceover and it's it's not succeeding I'm like I don't have anything, and then I have to remind myself like no I love making music I love like, even though I can't draw, I love drawing

Kevin Coulter: Like doing any type of art like even just like reading stupid stories with friends is still like art to me and like watching the sunset is still art to me, so I like I go to karaoke all the time I.

Kevin Coulter: Do stuff like that.

Kevin Coulter: To like.

Kevin Coulter: pull myself out of the like trap of.

Kevin Coulter: I need this to work to give myself meaning or it's like no there's I still have meaning if this doesn't work and if it doesn't work, I will be able to find a way around that like I can always have this as part of my life.

Kevin Coulter: But it doesn't, I don't need it to succeed for me to succeed.

Jordan Ugalde: Yeah that that's honestly, something that I'm working on right now.

Jordan Ugalde: To be completely transparent.

Jordan Ugalde: Because I've been so fixated on this ideal of startup founder successful startup founder.

Jordan Ugalde: Right, whereas.

Jordan Ugalde: Well, most companies don't succeed.

Jordan Ugalde: there's a lot of failure and.

Jordan Ugalde: I think one very important lesson that I've been working on internalizing is.

Jordan Ugalde: You don't necessarily have to let go of that ambition but make sure you're defined by more than just that, because if you just have this one dimension, then buddy you better be perfect at that dimension.

Jordan Ugalde: You better be like.

Jordan Ugalde: The most maximal in that dimension, because if you falter at all, you are, you are, you only have one dimension, so if you turn 90 degrees there's no other dimension for you.

Jordan Ugalde: it's.

Jordan Ugalde: And the thing is, if if I am honest with myself there is so much more to my life that just my ambitions, there are plenty of other things that've been in it, but it's.

Jordan Ugalde: When you're pursuing a dream it's so easy to get single minded and forget about all that and I know for some people like there have been some people I know.

Jordan Ugalde: Who, not just are in that mindset, but also sacrifice a lot to the point that they lose both themselves and their their support structures.

Jordan Ugalde: So.

Jordan Ugalde: in regards to.

Jordan Ugalde: Your experiences, how do you.

Jordan Ugalde: How do you make sure.

Jordan Ugalde: How do you balance, a lot of adult life is balance, how do you balance sacrifice.

Kevin Coulter: Um.

Kevin Coulter: I think it's important, I'm like a very detail oriented person and I like making lists and I like making spreadsheets I'm actually working on a voiceover spreadsheet like right now.

Tyler T Hamer: Oh that's cool.

Kevin Coulter: And I made a list basically of the values that were important to me, the things that I like absolutely could never budge on.

Kevin Coulter: And what things weren't necessarily the most important that I could sacrifice a bit or things that I was like yeah I don't need this at all like I don't need to I don't need to live in a mansion like that's a little kid me is gonna be disappointed, but like fuck little kid me.

Kevin Coulter: But um.

Kevin Coulter: Going back to that and, like reminding myself like.

Kevin Coulter: What ultimately is important, what I need to have to retain myself and like relooking at that list and seeing like what matters to me like the people that I have in my life or the the other things that I do besides voiceover.

Kevin Coulter: And like.

Kevin Coulter: As dumb as it is like scheduling time for those things as well is is what you need to do.

Jordan Ugalde: I I very much agree.

Kevin Coulter: Scheduling like I'm gonna hang out with friends for two hours today or like an hour today and, like actually putting it on your calendar, because you won't do it if you don't you.

Jordan Ugalde: No no, I've been I've become religiously devoted to my calendar and making sure I, like any fun goes in my calendar.

Jordan Ugalde: I explicitly book time to for my relationships for like I.

Jordan Ugalde: I even have.

Jordan Ugalde: Me and a friend, are working on, we both want to compete with each other.

Jordan Ugalde: in regards to fitness we want to, we want to out fitness each other.

Jordan Ugalde: and and it's pretty nebulous we we but we send each other pictures every two weeks, and like send a current weigh in and my my wife says it's a bit like a it's a bit like not the most.

Jordan Ugalde: She she questions if if I am if I'm loyal to her or.

Jordan Ugalde: she's like you know you're getting a lot of these shirtless pics from this other guy.

Kevin Coulter: Are you sending nudes to someone else.

Kevin Coulter: These aren't nudes, they're progress pics.

Jordan Ugalde: Progress pics yeah.

Jordan Ugalde: But.

Jordan Ugalde: Like I have that in my calendar and I have daily daily reminders that I am in this competition to help keep me motivated and just keeping.

Jordan Ugalde: Honestly, the more, what I found and tell me if it's similar for you, but I found is that the more you impose external structure to make it easier to commit to the version of yourself, you want to be, the easier it is to follow that.

Kevin Coulter: Absolutely, I think.

Kevin Coulter: Building the habit like when you can't rely on motivation, you can rely on the habit it's like it's you're just doing it.

Kevin Coulter: Just your day to day like it's in your schedule so you're going to do it instead of like, I'm I'm gonna wake up and convince myself to do it every day, it's like it's so much harder to keep that sustainable than it is to just follow a thing that you wrote a week go.

Jordan Ugalde: Yeah.

Kevin Coulter: But yeah absolutely like I actually.

Kevin Coulter: deleted all of my social media, other than my voice over Twitter somewhat recently.

Kevin Coulter: Because I like wasn't really finding that I was using it like I didn't know.

Kevin Coulter: What to post or like who to contact and I was like the reason I hadn't deleted it, as, is because I was like this is how I stay in contact with friends and then, once I deleted it and, like had to force myself to stay in contact with friends it made me.

Kevin Coulter: Be way better at staying in contact with them and I got to know them on like an even deeper level so like.

Kevin Coulter: Putting those things on your schedule like putting like this is when I'm exercising this is.

Kevin Coulter: This is what I'm doing karaoke like these are my one hour of studying this is my however long of doing voiceover like it's you, you have that constant external reminder that gets you to do it and, like there are absolutely times that I ignore them but.

Kevin Coulter: Definitely, it helps you I mean again building that routine and building the like.

Kevin Coulter: If you can't rely on the internal motivation, you have the external and then it helps you stay centered.

Jordan Ugalde: Yeah yeah like.

Jordan Ugalde: I, for me, I have even had other people set reminders for or like relied on other people to help give me structure, and you have to

Jordan Ugalde: there's some level of balance for that, because if you lean on other people too much, then they fall over because, they tend to only, like people can hold their own body weight and a bit like some other weight, but not indefinite amounts of weight.

Kevin Coulter: Yep.

Jordan Ugalde: Yeah so there's definitely a lot of.

Jordan Ugalde: I think, really, in order to succeed, you have to lean on people some extent.

Jordan Ugalde: But.

Jordan Ugalde: This fucking balancing act of life, you have to.

Jordan Ugalde: lean on some people a bit, but not too much, but also like work and cultivating this real these relationships, but it needs to be at fully like mutual it's life is challenging.

Jordan Ugalde: and pursuing your passion is even more challenging.

Kevin Coulter: For your next episode you interview a trapeze artists to figure out.

Kevin Coulter: how to balance correctly.

Jordan Ugalde: If you know any trapeze artists, we'd love to, that'd be fun.

Kevin Coulter: Yeah.

Kevin Coulter: yeah it's.

Kevin Coulter: it's all like I mean it's all weird platitudes of like find that balance and never give up but it's like learning how to truly live that and finding that for yourself is absolutely the hardest part.

Kevin Coulter: Because like I know people that I've worked with are like way more organized than me and, like everything is written somewhere and then other people they like thrive in the chaos and if you give them a schedule at all their life falls apart.

Kevin Coulter: So it's like, like really finding like taking the time to explore yourself and like.

Kevin Coulter: understand who you are to find that balance for yourself because, like as much as we can talk about it here, we can't tell you how to live, like I could never give you advice that'll work 100% for you and.

Kevin Coulter: You can, I mean like you can suggest things but ultimately there's going to be differences.

Jordan Ugalde: Honestly actually along the lines of honestly I think what it really boils down to is really being honest with yourself and like.

Jordan Ugalde: All these phrases of like be be honest with yourself, you need balance all it the actual the reason that they are usually said at this high level platitude level is because you can't fucking give a general answer to this question like.

Jordan Ugalde: the the ultimate thing you need to do is be balanced, but everyone has a different distribution of weight and balances differently.

Jordan Ugalde: So.

Jordan Ugalde: I think.

Jordan Ugalde: Regardless of whether you're whether you're pursuing a path of passion or not, you need to, if you want to be.

Jordan Ugalde: satisfied with your life, you need to be honest with yourself and that that can be scary as shit.

Tyler T Hamer: Terrifiying yeah.

Jordan Ugalde: Yeah.

Jordan Ugalde: Like I'm sure you were honest with yourself your entire life from from being born, all the way till now.

Kevin Coulter: Absolutely, hat's why I got a degree in computer science and completed.

Jordan Ugalde: You like, you liked video games.

Jordan Ugalde: You were being honest you like video games.

Jordan Ugalde: Programming.

Jordan Ugalde: That's video games so.

Jordan Ugalde: Yeah yeah.

Kevin Coulter: It definitely it's definitely a battle and it's like.

Kevin Coulter: Self discovery never stops.

Tyler T Hamer: Yeah yeah.

Kevin Coulter: The one of the rules, I like to live my life by is.

Kevin Coulter: If you're the smartest person in the room you're in the wrong room and I think that, like.

Kevin Coulter: I think that applies to everything like.

Kevin Coulter: Even even with yourself if you if you think that you have nothing else to learn about yourself you're you're in the wrong room.

Jordan Ugalde: Oh shit one sec.

Tyler T Hamer: No I mean that's fair well.

Tyler T Hamer: Are you the only one in that room.

Jordan Ugalde: No, no.

Jordan Ugalde: I was pretending to move to a different room but.

Jordan Ugalde: I thought it.

Tyler T Hamer: Lauren's in this room so I'm clearly not the smartest person.

Jordan Ugalde: I cannot really move everything right here.

Jordan Ugalde: This light is not really movable.

Jordan Ugalde: Yeah um.

Jordan Ugalde: It can be very but even with because I agree.

Jordan Ugalde: Like not being the smartest person in the room but honestly, if you are the smartest person in the room, I don't know if it's this for other people, but I feel.

Jordan Ugalde: Almost a sense of dread because it feels like I have hit a wall if there if I feel like there's nothing for me to learn from the people around me and for me that there is nothing more.

Jordan Ugalde: despair inspiring than that, like, I honestly, one of the things I loved about this podcast is just hearing such diversely radically different stories from the past I've gone down and like.

Jordan Ugalde: I think I might be a slightly better programmer than you're and you're probably slightly better voice actor than they just slightly.

Kevin Coulter: Maybe just guessing.

Jordan Ugalde: But like so being able to hear your insights into that way of life is awesome.

Kevin Coulter: Absolutely yeah.

Jordan Ugalde: And I find this not just invigorating on a personal level of growth, but just on.

Jordan Ugalde: I'm not spiritual but on a spiritual level.

Jordan Ugalde: Yeah like it's just it's a level of fulfillment that it's just outside of the professional space.

Kevin Coulter: Absolutely and surround yourself with people that inspire you that's like.

Kevin Coulter: Yeah the biggest, the biggest thing that you can do to help yourself and it doesn't necessarily need to be I mean, as you were just discussing the same exact path.

Kevin Coulter: That you're going on, like,

Kevin Coulter: My whole support group, like I'm the only voice actor and all of them are amazing in everything they do, and just watching them succeed and thrive and whatever they're working on inspires me to want to do the same.

Jordan Ugalde: Yeah yeah.

Jordan Ugalde: On the flip side of this, there are some times, where you have to exorcise the relationships that are causing you damage outside of your life because.

Jordan Ugalde: it's, if you are surrounded, if you're the smartest person in the room, if you are surrounded by people who are like crabs in a bucketing you and, just like.

Jordan Ugalde: there's it's there's a point where you have to get out and define who you are outside of that space so.

Jordan Ugalde: I, that is by no means easy. Have you experienced that what does that been like for you?

Kevin Coulter: Oh boy.

Kevin Coulter: I had a group of friends who.

Kevin Coulter: They were like big party friends where like every time I hung out with them, we had a great time but they didn't like.

Kevin Coulter: This feels so mean but they didn't really want to accomplish much with their life like they were just there to party and like.

Kevin Coulter: They wanted you to just be there to party and like constant, like they didn't want you to focus on work they they wanted everyone in the group to just always be party mode.

Kevin Coulter: and

Kevin Coulter: That, for a long time was a group that was absolutely holding me back because I was just kind of stuck in that mindset with them.

Kevin Coulter: And I felt like if I didn't make the time for them that they were expecting that I was failing as a friend.

Kevin Coulter: And I didn't really like realize any of this was happening until I, I ended up dating someone who another member of the group had a crush on.

Kevin Coulter: And then he.

Kevin Coulter: started spreading like incredibly malicious rumors about me.

Tyler T Hamer: Oh man.

Kevin Coulter: And like we kind of stopped being friends after that point.

Kevin Coulter: And a lot of people were like taking his side because, generally, the first person you hear on a story that has two sides of the person that you believe.

Kevin Coulter: So people were like coming to me and being like, why are you mad at him and I like explain my side of the story, and I like I had like screenshots of him admitting to doing

Kevin Coulter: things and like people weren't believing my screenshots and like it was just like it was a horrible horrible time where I like lost 90% of my friend group and I.

Tyler T Hamer: That's really rough oh.

Kevin Coulter: Like that was like right after I left the.

Kevin Coulter: The HR staffing company, so it was like I had lost just so much in my life.

Kevin Coulter: So I had to very, very rapidly like get better at like holding people accountable knowing what like true friendship feels like and like reevaluating all of my friends at the time to like are you good, are you a good influence on me, or do you just want me to be the same forever.

Kevin Coulter: And like really taking that time to figure out, who I was and figure out like if the people I was surrounding myself wanted me to be that person or if they wanted me to be someone else and it like it is such a hard journey to take, and I.

Jordan Ugalde: Yeah like.

Kevin Coulter: The most self discovery I've done and, also like the shortest period of time and also like one of the darkest places my life has ever gone to um.

Kevin Coulter: I don't know if.

Kevin Coulter: it's a riot it was a fun time.

Jordan Ugalde: I would imagine it was pretty quick and painless like.

Kevin Coulter: Yeah.

Kevin Coulter: I woke up and everything was chill.

Jordan Ugalde: Just leaving your past job losing 90% of your friend right that's like a typical Friday, so I.

Tyler T Hamer: Think it's a Tuesday.

Jordan Ugalde: Yeah.

Kevin Coulter: yeah and I had to like.

Kevin Coulter: I was in an abusive relationship once upon a time, and like she was also heavily involved with everything, so it was like really, really invalidating tab everyone like choose the side of my abuser and.

Tyler T Hamer: That's terrible.

Kevin Coulter: It made me feel like less than human and I had to like remind myself why I was human and like now, I have this wonderful like perfect support group that like.

Kevin Coulter: inspires me and I inspire them and we all support each other and like I'm not saying that everybody should go through hell to find their place.

Kevin Coulter: It sure fucking worked for me.

Jordan Ugalde: I would say like for me as well that a lot of my biggest growth moments were the worst moments of my life but.

Jordan Ugalde: Well, what were you about to say?

Tyler T Hamer: Well I'll just say growth is uncomfortable right like if it was comfortable if, like the reason why you're growing right.

Tyler T Hamer: it's doing the same thing over and over again, is comfortable and like right, because otherwise it lets you just stay what you're doing and.

Tyler T Hamer: grow, otherwise everyone should be growing all the time right so idea that growth is comfortable and takes you somewhere new.

Tyler T Hamer: And kind of I think one of the reasons why you know a lot of people, including myself, you guys like experience a lot of growth when things get really dark is.

Tyler T Hamer: You don't want all of us at the place that's normally comfortable is not and so they're only there is only option is growth to get out of there and it kind of.

Jordan Ugalde: I grow growth is the only way to get out but not everyone makes it out.

Tyler T Hamer: No it's true it's just because it's it's also.

Tyler T Hamer: Because what direction are you going to grow right it's it's kind of it's kind of like we were saying earlier, just like be happy flip a switch like we're just now nebulously saying you're in a bad place just grow out of it.

Tyler T Hamer: that's not, right it's we're not giving any actionable items are just saying this is what you need to do not how to do it.

Kevin Coulter: Therapy.

Jordan Ugalde: I have.

Jordan Ugalde: Like honestly, BetterHelp BetterHelp has been great for me and in that if you can't find a therapist that matches you, the first time, you can easily find a new one.

Jordan Ugalde: In like 24 hours, and I have gone through 12, 12 therapists.

Kevin Coulter: That's incredible.

Jordan Ugalde: That sucks.

Jordan Ugalde: I like my current one.

Jordan Ugalde: But yeah no like.

Jordan Ugalde: Getting the support you need to be honest with yourself and work towards who you want to be.

Jordan Ugalde: is crucial and my motto is use every weapon at your disposal to get where you want to go because life is really hard, life is really hard.

Kevin Coulter: And it doesn't pull any punches.

Jordan Ugalde: Life doesn't pull any punches and.

Jordan Ugalde: At least, be aware of every weapon that exists, even if there's some tools that you don't want to use just so you can give yourself the best fighting chance at finding your own happiness because god that shit is hard.

Tyler T Hamer: Yes.

Kevin Coulter: Yeah and I think there's a lot of like.

Kevin Coulter: A lot of the things that you might recommend to someone like therapy for an example is like I feel like there is still somewhat of a stigma around things like that or even like I for full honesty, I do have to take antidepressants and I feel like there's a stigma around that.

Jordan Ugalde: SSRIs? Fluoxetine?

Kevin Coulter: It's lexapro.

Jordan Ugalde: Okay yeah yeah.

Kevin Coulter: And it's.

Kevin Coulter: I mean, as you were saying like.

Kevin Coulter: Knowing all of the options, you have get like outfitting yourself with as many weapons as you can find and even if, even if it doesn't feel like the right one for you like, I had to go through a ton of therapists as well, through my life to like.

Kevin Coulter: The point that I was like therapy doesn't work for me and I just like stopped going to it, and then I my current.

Kevin Coulter: My two most recent therapists who I had to be switched off because one went on to a medical leave were like literal perfect therapists for me in my life, like in the span of a year like got so much better.

Kevin Coulter: And it's um something that I think a lot of people.

Kevin Coulter: need to focus on is like knowing how to set and keep boundaries, not only for themselves, but the people in their lives.

Jordan Ugalde: We don't teach that.

Tyler T Hamer: No.

Kevin Coulter: Not at all.

Jordan Ugalde: Like In fact I would say, if anything, we're often taught the opposite like growing up.

Jordan Ugalde: It was very common like if, if older relatives want to hug you or just show you affection, you have to put up with it.

Kevin Coulter: Like you have to put up with it.

Jordan Ugalde: You can't you're not allowed to say no, you know I don't want that, and.

Jordan Ugalde: it's.

Jordan Ugalde: It it can be so unintuitive to learn boundaries, if all of your lessons and socialization have been boundaries don't exist.

Kevin Coulter: Yeah yeah yeah yeah I definitely was raised with that mindset it's something that I talked about a lot with with my therapist.

Kevin Coulter: was like people who are used to.

Kevin Coulter: You not having boundaries, if you start setting boundaries it's gonna feel like the end of the world to them.

Kevin Coulter: And I think through that regardless, is something that you have to figure out and it's like they don't teach you don't learn this it's it's something that you have to do through trial and error and it's not fun.

Tyler T Hamer: Well, I think, also along the lines of like you know we having the growth, when you have the most growth when like things are darkest you also tend to set boundaries when they need to be set, you don't like.

Tyler T Hamer: Go and preemptively set a boundary and so it's always like that's another reason why it's really painful you're like this line has been crossed, and so now I know it's that's the line.

Jordan Ugalde: Oh God yeah it's like one of the hard things about boundaries is you don't always know that they exist until you.

Kevin Coulter: realize.

Kevin Coulter: Until they crossed it.

Tyler T Hamer: yeah.

Jordan Ugalde: yeah, this is not okay.

Kevin Coulter: I know I tend to like overcorrect when I realized that one of my boundries like,

Kevin Coulter: exist and I'm like if anything remotely reminds me about like you fucking piece of shit.

Kevin Coulter: And then, like.

Kevin Coulter: A day later I'm like wow I'm unreasonable.

Kevin Coulter: Even for me like I'm preaching about it and it's still, it's still a learning, learning lesson and things I need to work on, and I mean if I think at any point that I have no point left to grow, then I'm in the wrong room.

Jordan Ugalde: Yeah and, and all this to say to our listeners, we can say whatever we want, but you need to actually do it just.

Jordan Ugalde: Do it.

Tyler T Hamer: Hashtag Shia LaBeouf.

Jordan Ugalde: Yeah we, I think our last episode, had a "do it" in it.

Tyler T Hamer: That was with Jake right?

Jordan Ugalde: Yeah he also had a "just do it".

Jordan Ugalde: mindset. I kind of want to like include that in every one of these episodes like at least like.

Tyler T Hamer: A hidden just do it.

Kevin Coulter: Just do it.

Jordan Ugalde: We need to have like a Shia LaBeouf just creep into the frame.

Jordan Ugalde: I am slowly in the process of making these podcast episodes, learning video editing and so, if I can make Shia LaBeouf magically appear behind us and just scream just do it, I would I would be so proud of myself, that is a growth moment that is a growth moment right there.

Kevin Coulter: You have something to focus on to give you.

Jordan Ugalde: Yes.

Tyler T Hamer: Well, Jordan, what you have to do is since we're like all separate you just have to replace one of us to Shia LaBeouf some point, like don't tell.

Tyler T Hamer: don't tell the audience.

Jordan Ugalde: Oh man yeah like get a deep fake of Shia LaBeouf .

Tyler T Hamer: Yes.

Tyler T Hamer: We get Shia LaBeouf on the podcast.

Jordan Ugalde: We are all Shia LaBeouf deep inside.

Jordan Ugalde: that is the lesson.

Jordan Ugalde: Okay, well, so one last question to wrap things up.

Jordan Ugalde: You've talked you talked a bit about your own experience, getting into voice acting but for someone.

Jordan Ugalde: Who has like no experience but has seen like voice acting people on YouTube has realized that in these video games that they play that there are voice actors, there are actual people what would you say to someone who has no idea how to get started, but is interested?

Kevin Coulter: I actually do this, a lot.

Kevin Coulter: I'm I'm.

Kevin Coulter: I think that classes are the most important resource for any level of voice actor.

Kevin Coulter: Which is like such a shitty thing to say, because classes cost money and like not everybody has a budget for that and, like.

Kevin Coulter: For me to go like before you get into voiceover take classes is like.

Kevin Coulter: A little bit of gate keeping and I don't want to do that, but like there's absolutely resources that you can find online like that like teach you how to get started and.

Kevin Coulter: Like I'm certain there, I mean like Crispin Freeman's voice I've seen Crispin Freeman's voice acting mastery or like you can absorb that sort of information that you would get from a class but it's free.

Kevin Coulter: But if you end up if you do end up taking that free route, or even if you're not something that's super helps is.

Kevin Coulter: Finding performances that resonate with you and then recording the same thing and seeing how they're.

Kevin Coulter: Similar or seeing how they're different, like actually listen to yourself record yourself acting and listen to it and see what you can do better and see like.

Kevin Coulter: How does it make you feel like how does it compare to the people that you look up to like there's a reason that they're getting cast for these roles and finding that reason and putting it into your own delivery, which ultimately is just learning how to act better, which is classes, but.

Kevin Coulter: It's all just finding little excuses to practice and then, once you feel like you have a better understanding of your voice, either through classes or self practice get.

Kevin Coulter: get a cheap microphone of like stay in your budget there's like this huge culture in the voiceover world where like if you're on a blue yeti you aren't a real voice actor, which is not true if you call yourself a voice actor and you're acting with your voice you're a real voice actor um.

Kevin Coulter: So, like get get something and then just start auditioning for like you're gonna start with unpaid stuff like you're you're.

Kevin Coulter: it's very unlikely that your first gig is going to be one that's going to pay you a lot of money so like find those passion projects that matter for you and and lend your voice to them and keep honing your craft keep studying and keep learning and it's such a long process and network.

Kevin Coulter: And, just like I mean, like any house starts with one brick so like start with the learning how to act and then, as you get those foundations keep building and building on it and picking up more and more skills and like.

Kevin Coulter: I mean I don't know that's that's kind of the path to start in any passion or any any career is you start with the lowest amount of knowledge that you can absorb and you keep adding to it.

Tyler T Hamer: That's, I mean that's fair, that's kind of a just kind of reminder of like everyone who did something they're passionate about started off in the same place, it was not having a ton of knowledge.

Tyler T Hamer: Finding out, getting exposed to that passion, you know, seeing if they even want to learn that knowledge and then trying to acquire it and it's kind of.

Tyler T Hamer: You know it's it's kind of humbling to remember like we all kind of came from the same an original origin in terms of like what we care about.

Jordan Ugalde: Yeah I would say there is very much a myth of Mozart in our society where Mozart, he was a prodigy in his early, early childhood making music, and that is not 99% of people's experience there are most successful people have started at the ground level.

Jordan Ugalde: And how to gruelingly work themselves up, so I think it's important to acknowledge. Say this is like and also so that when you're getting into it, you realize okay this extremely shitty situation I'm feeling, this is unfortunately normal.

Jordan Ugalde: And I will push through it to to get to the path that I want to make.

Jordan Ugalde: So yeah that is good to know and also there is you mentioned a voice actor club discord.

Kevin Coulter: Yes, Voice Acting Club.

Kevin Coulter: I don't remember how I found it but I'm sure if you just Google voice acting club discord you can find it.

Kevin Coulter: it's also a website and the the discord channel's probably on the website, but there's like looking for local any type of acting class or, like any type of acting.

Kevin Coulter: If you have like a local community theater, just audition for things for that and you'll get direction like you'll get.

Kevin Coulter: New things and you'll get experience and.

Kevin Coulter: I think, for me, the most important thing that I feel like maybe a lot of people overlook is find improv somewhere.

Kevin Coulter: Improv is so important because it teaches you how to like go with the flow and make strong choices and like.

Kevin Coulter: Roll with the punches and I feel like you gain a lot of skills from improv that help in your life overall like I got better at public speaking from taking improv improv classes like.

Jordan Ugalde: Yeah.

Kevin Coulter: I got better at like so many like interviews for not even voiceover like.

Kevin Coulter: It helps so much just take improv classes everyone.

Jordan Ugalde: Final message for the day.

Jordan Ugalde: Everyone take improv.

Jordan Ugalde: This episode, sponsored by improv.

Kevin Coulter: And I think like a lot of improv is, I don't know if you have to.

Tyler T Hamer: I think depends, where you are like yeah yeah yeah.

Kevin Coulter: I know if you're like in a college there's gonna be improv like clubs that you can do for free and.

Jordan Ugalde: Sometimes high school, yeah if you can, if you can find a local class that's free great if you have to pay well the gates being kept so sorry about that.

Kevin Coulter: Unfortunately voiceover you are going to have to pay money eventually.

Jordan Ugalde: Yeah at the very least to buy at least a shitty mic.

Tyler T Hamer: That's a business expense and it's.

Jordan Ugalde: Write off all of it, you're tax deductible yeah.

Jordan Ugalde: Future episode on on business deductions and taxes.

Jordan Ugalde: We need to, we need to bring on like a tax expert.

Tyler T Hamer: Oh so passionate about taxes.

Tyler T Hamer: Someone passionate about taxes.

Tyler T Hamer: That'll be like the guy from like parks and rec right it's like I think Barry is his name or whatever.

Jordan Ugalde: There has to be someone passionate about taxes, there are there's millions of people in America at least one of them is passionate about their taxes I hope.

Tyler T Hamer: I hope so.

Jordan Ugalde: Yeah.

Jordan Ugalde: All right now.

Jordan Ugalde: Last very last thing, even though I did bring up before before we say goodbye to you, your website is and your Twitter handle is.

Kevin Coulter: @CoulterGheist C O U L T E R G H E I S T.

Jordan Ugalde: Wonderful wonderful and kevin's voice is amazing as you've heard.

Tyler T Hamer: He will sell you things at Kohl's or give it to you for free yeah.

Jordan Ugalde: Well, it was a pleasure talking to you.

Kevin Coulter: Thanks so much.

Jordan Ugalde: If you're ever on the east coast let's meet up and grab a drink sometime.

Kevin Coulter: Sounds great.

Jordan Ugalde: Okay, see you later man.

Tyler T Hamer: See you.

Kevin Coulter: Bye.