From Biotech to Dance and Taekwondo Teacher


In this week's episode we talk to Tyler's dance teacher, Sean Bjerke, about leaving a decade long career in biotech to become a teacher of house dance and Taekwondo.

Sean Bjerke's Media Accounts:
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Sean's Instagram:


Tyler T Hamer: Welcome to the Path of Passion Podcast where we hear from people who are living lives they're passionate about. I'm your host Tyler, and this is my enamoring co-host.

Jordan Ugalde: Hi I'm Jordan.

Tyler T Hamer: And today we're interviewing my dance teacher Sean. Sean was originally a chemical engineer, and now teaches both

Tyler T Hamer: house dance, so like electric dance music, and Taekwondo. So let's get into it. So Sean tell us about this like journey going from basically kicking ass what your mind to kicking ass with your body.

Sean Bjerke: You had that one saved up.

Tyler T Hamer: I did.

Sean Bjerke: I'm, I might take that too, I might write that down. So yeah hi guys, my name is Sean Bjerke and like Tyler said I, I went to school to study chemical engineering, I went to Tufts University and I was actually, I can say kicking ass right you did so, I can say it right?

Tyler T Hamer: Yeah, you're totally good.

Sean Bjerke: I guess you can say I was actually kicking ass with my body, before I was kicking ass with my mind, because I started

Sean Bjerke: studying Taekwondo, it's a Korean martial art, I started studying when I was eight years old, when I lived on the Cape.

Sean Bjerke: And honestly like kind of leading up to college and then beyond, like I think Taekwondo really set a strong foundation for just, you know approaching life. There's a lot of life lessons that are to be learned from martial artists, not just like kicking and punching.

Sean Bjerke: One of my old instructors he had like this famous, well famous to us, but the speech that he would always give us kids were I think it's when we were giving him a hard time he would just sit us down and he said, this is, I'm gonna give you the speech.

Sean Bjerke: He would go.

Tyler T Hamer: Sounds good.

Sean Bjerke: He's like look at the door, so we like,

Sean Bjerke: look at me, we look back, he's like when you when you leave the Taekwondo school you're still doing Taekwondo. And then he he proceed to have this conversation with himself as if he was talking as us.

Sean Bjerke: He's like well, what do you mean, Mr. Kim well I'm not punching or kicking when I go home.

Sean Bjerke: He's like you got chores to do, you got homework, you got to take out the trash, you got a bedtime. Like he's like all these things are, you have to do these things as part of life and Taekwondo teaches you like, you have to be your best self.

Sean Bjerke: So if you're not doing these things, you're not, you're not doing Taekwondo and we're all, you know as an eight year old you're like.

Sean Bjerke: Well, I still like to kick things I like to break boards and all that but I think just having that as like this voice in the back of my head...

Sean Bjerke: Like going growing up throughout life whenever you encounter adversity, I was like, well you know I can either accept defeat or I can push through it.

Sean Bjerke: You know? I can, I can make the best of it, and I think that's really helped me,

Sean Bjerke: not just in Taekwondo but also in school like it really kept me focused. I was a good, I think I was, I was a pretty good student already when I started in fourth grade, but I think it just,

Sean Bjerke: as I got older it just kind of worked in parallel. Like, I felt like when I walk in to the Taekwondo studio it's like focus ready to go.

Sean Bjerke: Walk into math class, walk into, whatever it is, English, French, boom ready to go. Like, listen, eyes open, ears open, try to get everything you can out of it.

Sean Bjerke: And I'm not, you know not saying I'm perfect, like there are things where I'm like, like I would rather not pay attention to certain things, or like do everything that I do but

Sean Bjerke: I think just having that approach, helped me

Sean Bjerke: make my own success in martial arts. Like I'm a fourth degree black belt now so I've been I've been doing it ever since I was eight.

Sean Bjerke: And it helped me be successful in school and helped me really focus on like the mathematics and sciences, particularly which I'm sure you guys are no strangers to as MIT students.

Tyler T Hamer: It's it's it's a good time.

Sean Bjerke: It's a bit of a grind. So to kind of cut back to your question, you know I studied chemical engineering in, at Tufts University, graduated with my bachelor's.

Sean Bjerke: And Tuft's is also where I started to learn about dance, and it was on more of a recreational level like it wasn't,

Sean Bjerke: like all right, you got to make danc your life. Like it was just, you know, there were clubs there that, you know, we, we learned about dance, we did performances.

Sean Bjerke: And I'd say, for me the, like, doing performances was what made me really fall in love with the idea of like, okay, well "why do you dance?" "To show it."

Sean Bjerke: And I think my Taekwondo help that with that too, because we would do demonstrations, when I was younger we'd go to like you know,

Sean Bjerke: local fairs or just local events and we do a Taekwondo demonstration, where we show what we practiced, we do some crazy board breaking, sometimes we do some sparring.

Sean Bjerke: And when you, when you show up to something like that and you're, you're representing yourself, you're representing your school.

Sean Bjerke: You know the mindset is, if you look really good and know what you're doing, people are going to really enjoy it. They're going to maybe even join your school it's like, wow I want to be like that.

Sean Bjerke: You know? The first day I went to my Taekwondo school, all the higher belts were doing like flying kicks like they're flying over each other, that, you literally had kids like I know, Jordan, you said you wanted to show you something but,

Sean Bjerke: you'd have kids like like this on the floor like they're like this and you have other kids like jumping over them.

Jordan Ugalde: Wow.

Sean Bjerke: So as an eight year old when you see that you're like, what?

Tyler T Hamer: Yeah that has to be like, I mean eight year old me was just like impressed with everything so like the fact that you see someone literally kicking ass like.

Sean Bjerke: Right it's like, same. It's like I'm impressed by like a tomato but, like to see like children flying over each other it's like, what what is this? What is the sorcery? So having that kind of experience with Taekwondo really made me enjoy the performance part of dance and

Sean Bjerke: after I graduated I was, you know, I was in biotech for about

Sean Bjerke: 13, 14 years, 14 years.

Sean Bjerke: And I was concurrently still doing, practicing Taekwondo and teaching Taekwondo in Cambridge and Boston. And also continue to study dance, I was as a part of a dance company which,

Sean Bjerke: I was a part of my first company post college for about six years and then I shifted to a new company called, it was called Concept Artists, it's a company that I actually am still affiliated with. I help direct it.

Sean Bjerke: We do, you know, we create our own performances and perform around Boston, New England. Right now performances are a little you know few and far between but we're hoping to get back to that.

Sean Bjerke: And I started teaching dance about, gonna say 10, 11 years ago and I'll be honest, when I started teaching, like if I, if I, if current me goes back and looks at then me, like I probably didn't know what I was doing.

Sean Bjerke: Like I knew enough to like, present myself a certain way, but I know much more now about what the valuable things are to teach in dance. So you know, I am teaching full time now in 2018 I was unceremoniously or ceremoniously I don't know, I guess, depending on how you want to look at it.

Sean Bjerke: Are the company, I worked as Momenta Pharmaceuticals, they did a massive layoff. They're basically shifting directions and they decided half the company was not needed so

Sean Bjerke: at that point in time, I was actually considering making a career change to teaching full time anyway, so in a way it was like, oh cool they made the decision for me and they're paying me to like leave.

Tyler T Hamer: I'll take that sweet severance yeah.

Sean Bjerke: It was, I mean it was it was kind of like really good timing. And since the end of 2018 I've been, you know, teaching multiple dance classes a week, teaching at my Taekwondo studio and just really trying to make

Sean Bjerke: a, you know, a career for myself that was based on those things and it's been a challenge but it's also been a fun experience, because when you have like 100% of your

Sean Bjerke: brain mass to put towards something, I realized, I was like man, I was really spreading myself really thin and not really getting 100% out of anything I was doing.

Sean Bjerke: You know? I think that, and that that is also part of from like the Taekwondo you can sometimes convince yourself, you can do everything, and shoulder everything.

Sean Bjerke: And then, when you realize like you don't have to do that you're like man, like why didn't I just focus on, you know X, Y or Z, but it's you know that's experience. So, so, so now I'm teaching and and I like where I'm at.

Tyler T Hamer: No that's fair. It's, I think a really good

Tyler T Hamer: takeaway from that is just focusing on the things you actually want to, like, dedicate your time to because MIT is the exact opposite like they teach you

Tyler T Hamer: first and foremost triage. They're like you're gonna come and drink from a fire hose and then you kind of leave after four years if you only did your bachelor's and you're like I didn't enjoy that. And I'm really good at triaging but it's not like a lifestyle to live at all.

Sean Bjerke: Yeah it's almost like they they are like throwing you into the fire right off the bat and it's like yeah all right put yourself out.

Tyler T Hamer: Yeah I mean that's kind of why I say so often in your dance class, like, trial by fire.

Sean Bjerke: Seriously yeah that's how the greats learned. The great had to, had to be pushed into it and

Sean Bjerke: you, you sink or swim.

Jordan Ugalde: Yeah.

Jordan Ugalde: So it, from the sound of it, you were doing chemical engineering, and being a dance instructor, and being a Taekwondo instructor all at the same time for quite a while.

Sean Bjerke: Yeah.

Jordan Ugalde: Was that...

Sean Bjerke: Yes, I would say, I, like even before I started teaching dance I was still like, you know,

Sean Bjerke: learning with my company and like probably doing that a few times a week. So all in all

Sean Bjerke: since the start of like college

Sean Bjerke: back in like 2000 like doing all that stuff.

Sean Bjerke: With with like minimal breaks like that's kind of the truth of it.

Sean Bjerke: I mean.

Tyler T Hamer: Were you then teaching Taekwondo while you were going to Tufts or...

Sean Bjerke: I, yeah, so there was a there

Sean Bjerke: luckily, was a Taekwondo club at Tufts that I participated in and would, you know, because I had a black belt from before, usually clubs like that there's probably, you know, one or two at MIT, I think they actually have a couple of Taekwondo clubs, where

Sean Bjerke: if you have experienced from former Taekwondo school, they like people like that coming into the club, because they bring kind of new ideas, new energy in, and they can help out with teaching.

Sean Bjerke: And I eventually became I think the head instructor my either, my junior or my senior year at Tufts, and I started training at the school that I'm currently an instructor at, the G H Kim Taekwondo Institute.

Sean Bjerke: So yeah I was teaching, then, and, you know, rehearsing dance then, and the fun wacky world of chemical engineering, then.

Sean Bjerke: So yeah.

Jordan Ugalde: If you were, since you've eventually, I mean now you've dropped the wacky world of chemical engineering for these other pursuits, so, it, what took you so long?

Sean Bjerke: What the hell man?

Sean Bjerke: Honest, honestly and, you know, I'm going to kind of keep going back to my martial arts training is when you, when you learn certain values or like you develop certain values in something so for me like,

Sean Bjerke: you know, loyalty and discipline are like two big things to me and the idea of quitting,

Sean Bjerke: like, it can, you can take it two ways right? It's like, one thing, it's like, okay, I want to do this thing that sometimes it's really hard

Sean Bjerke: and I can only fail if I quit, so I really want to like stick to it. But sometimes that mindset can work against you, where it's like, oh I don't want to quit anything because

Sean Bjerke: it's maybe, you know, I've convinced myself it's a sign of weakness or maybe just the feeling of quitting feels hard, because you have to deal with like people's emotions.

Sean Bjerke: So I think honestly man it's just I think I convinced myself, I had to do it all, for a long time. Plus, you know, it can't like, you know, living in Somerville, Cambridge, where there's a lot of biotech, biotech is a very, you know, lucrative industry. It's, you know, it pays well there's like good,

Sean Bjerke: what's the, what's the word, like, when people, when I talked to a bit, when I talked to, about it with people like, oh you're you're a chemical engineer, like that's really good. There's a lot of like,

Sean Bjerke: good notoriety with it. It just, it felt like I needed to do it for a while, but then probably the last three or four years of my

Sean Bjerke: tenure at Momento, you start, I started to feel the attrition kind of setting on. It's like man, like, why do I feel

Sean Bjerke: just like, it's a pain to get up in the morning and go to work and I realized like, I didn't see myself, I didn't really see myself

Sean Bjerke: 5, 10 years down the line, like what am I going to be doing? I could say something like I want to be a director, or I want to be this level.

Sean Bjerke: But I didn't see myself doing the work to get there, I saw myself like, oh, this is what happens, you get promoted.

Sean Bjerke: But I was like wait, that's not how it worked in Taekwondo I wasn't given a belt, I wasn't getting my black belt, I wasn't given like teaching opportunities, I had to work for those.

Sean Bjerke: And I realized like, I probably am not going to want to work for what I would want to see myself doing

Sean Bjerke: in this field. And that's that's one of those like, kind of come to Jesus like, man, maybe it's time, you know? But because of all those other things like the, the financial, the benefits, the security?

Sean Bjerke: It was like man that's a tough like balloon to let go, you know, you want to kind of hold on to it. And I think I honestly,

Sean Bjerke: that last year I probably convinced myself at some point, there was going to be some type of like signal that I was like, okay, this is the sign that is time to go. And it didn't ever really slap me in the face until they were like hey, you're all fired. And it was like,

Sean Bjerke: this is it, this is, it's like, it's like they're calling my number now like, that's me! Oh severance, cool, that's me!

Sean Bjerke: So it's kinda like some, I've read

Sean Bjerke: stories about like, different people's, you know, professional experience on like, like, how they approach things and like, what, some people literally just go with the flow and the whatever is presented to them they're like, oh, this is the thing that I'm doing now.

Sean Bjerke: And I feel like, I kind of fall into that it's like, ih, this is the challenge I'm up I'm forced with now? All right here we go let's make it work.

Sean Bjerke: So yeah man I, I don't have a good reason other than just I think I felt like, obligated to,

Sean Bjerke: to be this, you know, jack of all trades like, I got to do it all. I have, I my discipline started to work against me, and I see that now, and now it's like, okay, maybe I can, I can foresee something like that in the future, and hopefully work before it, you know, makes me feel some kind of way.

Tyler T Hamer: No that's really fair, I mean like, having transitioning out of like, grad school and for like, now working it was like, for a while I was like, oh

Tyler T Hamer: I, you know, even before before thesis got really tough, you know, going to your classes, all the time Sean and then still managing

Tyler T Hamer: to do a lot of work, I kind of like, right when I got out of grad school, I was like, should I pick up a new hobby? And everyone's like, no just go to dance, and like, don't, don't start something new, you don't have to do everything.

Sean Bjerke: Right right, but when you're, when you're really motivated sometimes like, you're you can be like, your own worst enemy, even when you're doing things that you really like.

Sean Bjerke: You're like, man, I want to do this, this, this, and this. But then, if you spread yourself too thin sometimes you look back and you're like, wait where am I getting with any of it? You know, I'm just sort of doing it, but I'm just treading water everywhere.

Jordan Ugalde: Right right, I think,

Jordan Ugalde: I'm not sure if it's common but like, something that I also experienced was

Jordan Ugalde: growing up, I didn't have that many hobbies, but then when I got to college I started doing way too many things and, at the end of it, I realized I didn't dedicate enough time to any of these. Like, I was burnt out on everything, because I,

Jordan Ugalde: there's only so much time in the day, and if you try and fit 10,000 things into 24 hours you aren't going to be able to actually do all those things.

Jordan Ugalde: Part of, honestly, part of loving a lot of different things is you have to let some things go, so that you can actually dedicate the time necessary to things that you care about the most.

Sean Bjerke: Yeah, do you guys ever go to a restaurant that has like,

Sean Bjerke: a menu that has way too many things on it and you're almost like, overwhelmed that you're going to make a bad choice. You're like, man, I want to get this, but this looks good these look good and you're like, I should order all four of them you know?

Sean Bjerke: It almost works against you, that there's too many choices versus like, Tyler that there's that small ramen place down the...

Tyler T Hamer: Yume, Yume Wo Katare.

Sean Bjerke: And it's like, you can get ramen with pork or ramen with more pork, those are your choices.

Sean Bjerke: So you

Sean Bjerke: know, on the surface it's like, oh it's not much, but then you're like, well it's it's easy to choose like, you know, I can

Sean Bjerke: it's laid out for me. But when you have a lot of choices you're right, you're right Jordan it's like, being a kid in a candy store and you only have 10 bucks to spend and you're like,

Sean Bjerke: and, and like, in life that that 10 bucks is like, time, you know, you only have a certain amount of time, you can put towards it. And you eventually find

Sean Bjerke: the best way to spend your time in the most optimal way, but sometimes you have to go through those, those first pathways where you're like, I'm doing too much, but eventually I want to settle on something.

Sean Bjerke: For sure.

Tyler T Hamer: So I guess like, along the concept of time then. Like

Tyler T Hamer: I mean, you know, that people like, to say, like, it takes 10,000 hours, of something to become an expert at it, so I guess like, to be called like, a fourth level black belt Sean, how, how many hours, do you think you've put into Taekwondo?

Sean Bjerke: I could probably like, do a quick calculation, it's funny I actually use the same exact thing with somebody the other day. I said...

Sean Bjerke: Yeah because we, you know, we practicem

Sean Bjerke: we call them poomsae in Taekwondo, it's like, just like, patterns that you have to learn and memorize to test for your next belt. And, you know, you're teaching the kids how to do it and they're kind of just like,

Sean Bjerke: doing this through it and, like, I can do it. And it's like, yeah you can get through it, but to like, really master it, you have to do it, maybe thousand, ten thousand times.

Sean Bjerke: So how many hours, oh my goodness. So I would say I was going to Taekwondo I was probably at the school most like, training wise I'm between 2002 to like, 2000...

Sean Bjerke: I'll say like, 2010ish. Like, I was probably training and going to classes like, multiple days a week, in addition to teaching. Now it's primarily teaching.

Sean Bjerke: But, you know, if I'm in the school, maybe

Sean Bjerke: I'll say like, 5 to 10 hours a week of just like, hitting the hitting the boards, let's say, let's say five hours, if you do that, over the course of the year, what is that?`

Tyler T Hamer: Like times 52 weeks.

Sean Bjerke: 260ish plus or minus hours.

Sean Bjerke: And then you multiply that over let's say 10 years comes out to like, 2600 hours and that's, that's, just like, the training part that's not like, the teaching, part too.

Sean Bjerke: Plus I've been doing Taekwondo for 30 years so that's like, a third of just the training.

Tyler T Hamer: So it's like,

Tyler T Hamer: 10,000 hours per belt level black belt right? Like...

Sean Bjerke: Yeah yeah.

Sean Bjerke: It's almost, it's almost like that. They actually, the way they like, you promote, usually between the like, the colored belts, so you start as a white belt.

Sean Bjerke: Yellow, green, blue red, you know, there's different ranks, probably takes like, two to three months if you're like, on top of your, your stuff. Two to three months to promote.

Sean Bjerke: And then you get to black belt and it starts to get longer. It's like, okay, ideally, they tell you it takes like, one to two years to go from one degree to like, the next degree and

Sean Bjerke: as a kid you're like, but I'm just memorizing like, the same types of things. Like, they're harder but why would it take two years? And I, as I got older like, the way I saw

Sean Bjerke: at my school and just in general, it's people's minds need that time

Sean Bjerke: to mature, it's the mind. Like, the physical, anyone can like, I can show people that have been doing Taekwondo for several years, I can show them like, a pattern but, like, the way they do it,

Sean Bjerke: if you just, if you just look at after a couple months it's like, okay.

Sean Bjerke: But like, spending the time with it, and like, understanding, you know, not just the details, but just kind of the greater

Sean Bjerke: purpose of like, what all these basic things are doing for your body and whatever, it's like, oh man there's actually a lot to kind of absorb that you can't just do it

Sean Bjerke: and expect that it's just going to come naturally in a short period of time. You need that time to marinate and sometimes you look back you're like, man that thing that my teacher said six years ago, now it makes sense.

Sean Bjerke: You know, it just, it's like, you have that "Aha!" and not many people want to put the time in, you know, they just want the,

Sean Bjerke: like the reward or the, they reach a certain level and they're like, oh cool I got it.

Sean Bjerke: And it's like, well like, it's all the stuff in between, actually, that was the learning, though, you know? Like, what did you get from that? And sometimes people I tell people

Sean Bjerke: who, sometimes takes them longer to get something so like, sometimes like, you, you spend that time that maybe this, this person over here, it took them this much time to get.

Sean Bjerke: But when you have to like, make yourself work that hard to like, get what this person got really easy you're going to appreciate that time, a lot more you're like, man, it took me so long, but

Sean Bjerke: like, I actually learned a lot more, and like, push myself over a longer period of time than this person did. Maybe they're really talented.

Sean Bjerke: And what I see is is like, as these two people progress this person tends to be there for the long haul, this person usually gets to a point and they're like, all right I'm good.

Sean Bjerke: And there's nothing wrong with that, that's just I think when you make yourself work for a long time, you have a better sense of discipline.

Tyler T Hamer: No that's fair and I definitely agree with that, like, having especially like, having to take a couple months off from dance because I need to like, actually finish the grind on my thesis. Like,

Tyler T Hamer: even though I was like, really out of shape when I came

Tyler T Hamer: back I felt like, my the way I was doing everything and changed like, fundamentally. Like, I was like, okay I'm back since I'm out of shape I'm back to like, square one,

Tyler T Hamer: but now I know all these things I didn't know before and so just practicing to get back into shape and going through it, I felt like

Tyler T Hamer: I could approach everything from a different way, I was more focused on like, instead of just like, in the beginner class doing

Tyler T Hamer: the steps, looking, focusing on like, how did the steps look in the mirror, is this the type of, like, trying to identify like, personally what is my style.

Tyler T Hamer: I like, obviously the dance move shuffling so like, I like, to now, I think I begin to realize I like, more bouncier style when it comes to

Tyler T Hamer: how I want to move.

Sean Bjerke: Yeah you have like, a reference point, you know? You're like, oh I've learned this before I get to do it again now, huh, okay now I can like, focus on different things, as I learned, versus having to learn it from scratch.

Tyler T Hamer: Yeah yeah.

Sean Bjerke: Focus is just like, staying afloat when you're learning from scratch, but then when you've, you've gone through it a few times you're like, akay, I feel a little different I think a little different.

Sean Bjerke: What am I, what am I feeling, what's, what's going on here so that's, that's great that you noticed that yeah.

Jordan Ugalde: Actually Tyler I think in our friend group you tend to learn slower, but, you know, it's true but you're

Jordan Ugalde: I think, also the most diligent of all of us, and I think one of the consequences is you're better able to explain a lot of the things you learned

Jordan Ugalde: than, most of the rest of us because, because you've stewed so long in what you're learning that you have such a grounded fundamental understanding that makes it easy for you to like, teach others, and I think that's like, very much a skill and talent.

Sean Bjerke: That's mighty praise bro, that's mighty praise. That's, that's what's up.

Tyler T Hamer: Well, I mean it also helps, though, like, being surrounded by like, the

Tyler T Hamer: right people, right like, so like

Tyler T Hamer: being surrounded by Sean.

Sean Bjerke: I'm surrounding you.

Tyler T Hamer: Last week, you know, like, we interviewed Jared on bartending and like, having taken bartending classes for six years, like, I guess,

Tyler T Hamer: you know, and like Sean was saying, the people who stick with the longest, they're in it for the, or they're learning slowly but they're in it for the long haul and I guess

Tyler T Hamer: it's kind of like, a feedback loop right? You get lucky. You're you're learning slower, but then since you're dedicated you are more likely to come out appreciating it more at the end.

Tyler T Hamer: And I guess if I just then try to take that and I, you know, try to show people, you know? And

Tyler T Hamer: I mean like, literally right now I'm like, repping Sean's merchandise so like, I'm on every single like, dance class I'm like, oh keep coming to Sean's class you'll get like, so much out of it it's a great time.

Jordan Ugalde: Yeah.

Sean Bjerke: Did you guys, do, you know, the TV show The Walking Dead, like, I think sometimes when we talk about uh what is it just like, like, the life timeline.

Sean Bjerke: Kind of, I have this tendency to kind of equate it to video games where it's like, you know, you level up and video games are nice because they literally, like, most of them

Sean Bjerke: give things to you in a certain order where it's like, okay, this is the next test. Okay now you're ready for this next test.

Sean Bjerke: It doesn't really go out of order, too often. Maybe there's some games now that do that. But generally it's this, it's like, this and in life

Sean Bjerke: I think sometimes you'll meet people on your path that sometimes, like, you, you meet them and it's like, it feels like, okay, this is the person that I need right now to take me to that next step.

Sean Bjerke: But sometimes you meet people that, maybe they're not quite what you need at that moment but they're valuable and you don't realize it.

Sean Bjerke: But it's not to say that you can meet someone like, way far out and say like, okay this,

Sean Bjerke: this person is above everyone else because I'm meeting them later. It might just be you met them at the right time and the stuff that they say, or they teach, or they give is like, what you need in that moment.

Sean Bjerke: And I think dance is a great thing because you, it's, it opens up the door to connect with so many different types of people, especially like, through social dances.

Sean Bjerke: Like Tyler can talk about his experience with going to the club and just, you know, people that, whether he knows it or not, like, people that have been in the club scene for a while they'll see him and they're like, who's this guy with like, this amazing energy that he just

Sean Bjerke: is getting down he

Sean Bjerke: doesn't care about like, anything in a good way. He looks like, he's just getting down. He's, he doesn't look self conscious, he doesn't like, look timid, he's just here to live.

Sean Bjerke: And, you know, like, based on like, those experiences sometimes you do things when you're ready at the right time and sometimes things are presented to you when you're not ready for them but uh, yeah man, I totally agree with with what you were saying on that.

Jordan Ugalde: So on the topic of community and how important it is meeting the right people at the right time, which is part skill, part luck, part just persistence.

Jordan Ugalde: With both dance and Taekwondo, what were the communities like, for you to help you keep with it and get to where you are now?

Sean Bjerke: I'll just, I'll start with Taekwondo so the the school that I'm at now that the Jay Kim school.

Sean Bjerke: I went there in 2002 because one of the students I trained with at Tufts recommended it, she said oh, if you want, like, I think I was coming up to the end of my

Sean Bjerke: sophomore, sophomore year and I was going to be living up in Cambridge for the summer and I was, like, all right, I want to, I want to have like, something to do, and she said, you should, you know, train at the school because the the instructor there is like, the best.

Sean Bjerke: You know, like, old Seinfeld the best Jerry the best.

Sean Bjerke: And he was, you know, he's a former his name is Jay Huang he's a former like, literal world champion fighter for his weight class at the time, like, in the early early 90s.

Sean Bjerke: You know, studied Taekwondo in Korea. And like, I walked into the the school and it was it's kind of like, two things are happening. One I, right away like, I totally verified what my friend said is like, this guy's the best like.

Tyler T Hamer: That's awesome.

Sean Bjerke: He just had this, he had this aura that he was the top and, but he was nice. Like, he was a good guy, he's very he's actually very like, shy, and like, in like, a kind of a funny way, because he's such a badass right? He's like, a badass, but he's just shy quiet. But in class, he was like,

Sean Bjerke: you know, he gave it to you. So like, as like, building that teacher student relationship was really important for me like, and it, but it wasn't something that I realized until I

Sean Bjerke: saw it happening. I was like, man, we have like, a really good rapport and he's really keeping me grounded. I thought I knew a lot and I got to the school and I like, right away, I was like,

Sean Bjerke: man I don't really know a lot, I thought I did, but it opened up my eyes, like, man there's so much more. Like, it's the iceberg right? Like, I saw this, but then there's like, all of this underneath.

Tyler T Hamer: Right yeah.

Sean Bjerke: So we had that and then also just the students that train, there were like, on the whole very just cool people to be around, you know? Like, I walked in and I didn't, I never felt like, oh man I hate these people like,

Sean Bjerke: you know? It was like, there were, you know, students that were more advanced and like, very, you know, they are very skilled, but there were also very grounded as people like, they were just cool to talk to.

Sean Bjerke: There were people that weren't as experienced but they, they really respected the people that were above them so they really, you know, they would come over and ask questions they pay respect.

Sean Bjerke: And then you had, you know, other other types people too, but everyone was there to like, to train and

Sean Bjerke: get better and also be a, you know, community like, when we go out to lunch, sometimes we go get ice cream after dance class you have stuff like that happened. You have people that make plans on the weekends and it felt like, a very,

Sean Bjerke: just, positive space to be a part of and that's probably a big part of why I've been training there for about 20 years now.

Sean Bjerke: And then, and then as a teacher trying to like, reciprocate that and like, create a good environment just, not just for the adults but we teach kids too.

Sean Bjerke: And kids are challenging because you're sort of like, shaping how they do everything like, mentally and physically so yet there's a lot of trust building.

Sean Bjerke: You know you have to like, with adults, adults usually come in and they're just like, they'll take it or leave it, no matter what, at least for a little bit, and then they decide if they want to do it, but kids like, right away, you got to kind of figure out how to emotionally connect.

Sean Bjerke: Because they're all very different right?

Sean Bjerke: Go ahead sorry.

Tyler T Hamer: I was gonna say it's like, the speech your teacher gave back when you're like, eight years old, like, he, right, he was trying to teach you like, this is a, since you're so impressionable, this is the mindset that you're going to need to follow through with this.

Sean Bjerke: Yeah for real, and and even then like, this, like, all the students were different, but when he gave that speech everyone was like,

Sean Bjerke: listening but yeah.

Sean Bjerke: So I think about things like that, and when I talked to the kids it's like, some like, today, for example. We have a lot of new students like, right now, like, a lot of new kids who are young, and I think part of it is like, they're adults or, ha they're adults, their parents

Sean Bjerke: want,

Sean Bjerke: they, they're like, hey we want you to do something, it's a new activity. But at the same time, they look at martial arts and they're like, yo this is going to kind of help snap some of you into shape.

Sean Bjerke: And, like, some of them are, you know, they're a little emotionally like, needy I'll say, you know, like, when they're tired they're like, I don't want to do it anymore, you know, like.

Sean Bjerke: And I expect it, but at the same time, like, I'm not going to be dishonest with them, I'm like, you know, this is the Taekwondo school like, it's not,

Sean Bjerke: it's not the playground, it's not your bedroom, it's like, you come here to get better at this, this martial art and I have to teach like, there's 20 of you,

Sean Bjerke: one of me. I have to teach all of you, so like, if one of you is kind of slowing us down with kind of like, a, you know, a, not a great attitude everyone else loses because of that.

Tyler T Hamer: Right yeah.

Sean Bjerke: Yeah it's like, like, just having those talks with them in a very like, honest way just say what needs to be said.

Sean Bjerke: And sometimes they're not, you know, they're like, well screw that, you know, I'm still going to be kind of obnoxious today and I was, like, all right well over time, you know, we'll see,

Sean Bjerke: we'll see what happens. You know, we'll see if this is for you or maybe it's not for you, but I'd say more times than not as long as you're honest with kids they like, eventually start to recognize like, huh,

Sean Bjerke: it's not all about me it's like, you know, like, they you learn good life lessons from that that help you as you become older. So yeah that's, that's the Taekwondo part of the question, but I'll let you guys if you don't know if you want to.

Tyler T Hamer: Oh I was gonna say, yeah I mean just having, you know, some days when I go to your dance class like, I'm not feeling it but like, just to keep up with it, I go and I just know on those days I'm like,

Tyler T Hamer: yeah, I'll just like, kind of focus on like, I won't push myself as hard, but I'm not going to ever try to slow down the rest of the class. Especially,

Tyler T Hamer: right, you know, and especially, in always, even if I'm not feeling it at least try to put on a good face for, especially on the Thursday class the beginners like, you know, everyone's really pumped and excited.

Sean Bjerke: Yeah dude, that's I mean you have just good intrinsic values that help you be a good community member, you know?

Sean Bjerke: So, like, with dance it's like, it's the same it's, you know, dance, especially because it's more of a social activity.

Sean Bjerke: Like the idea of training martial arts can be social in the sense that you, it's almost like, a team sport it's like, man, we all have to do this exercise and

Sean Bjerke: I just, I want to keep up, but with dance it can literally be social it's like, you do it to like, spend time with people and exchange with them and

Sean Bjerke: sometimes it leads to more beyond the dance like, you develop relationships with people that you want to see and

Sean Bjerke: the fact that, you know, like, you, kind of see like, how I say it sometimes I'm like, everyone brings a certain energy into a classroom or into any space, that whether they accept this or not, or whether they realize it that energy rubs off on people.

Tyler T Hamer: Yeah.

Sean Bjerke: So, if you come into a space and you're, you're, you know, maybe like, a model citizen, but your facial expression is like,

Sean Bjerke: you just look sour it's like, the people around you're going to be like,

Sean Bjerke: you know a little on edge, you know, little things like, that. And then behaviourally when people have like,

Sean Bjerke: I don't want to say poor behavior but, you know, what I mean like, sometimes people will like, do things or say things that just make people feel a little like blue, like, that person is going through something right now.

Tyler T Hamer: Yeah just.

Sean Bjerke: You know it's like, like,

Sean Bjerke: adults sometimes they, they, they, they've had certain experience, where they get to a certain age and they're like, well I've earned my right to kind of like, say what I feel.

Sean Bjerke: You know kids do that, but then they're told right away, though it's like, yo like, know your role.

Sean Bjerke: But with adults, sometimes adults like, don't like, to be checked like, that.

Sean Bjerke: So I just, you know, I try to I try to lead by example it's like, I come in, I have my my agenda, I make my agenda clear and then I try to adapt to people who are trying to understand my agenda.

Sean Bjerke: And I don't bring my outside stuff in, you know? If I, if I missed a like, a credit card payment or no let's say,

Sean Bjerke: my credit card bill came, it was really expensive and I'm like, God how am I gonna pay that? I'm not gonna bring that energy into class, because no one else cares like, no one else needs to know about it.

Sean Bjerke: But people will bring stuff with them like, relationship stuff, work stuff like, you said Tyler, and it's nothing against like, you're you're like, sometimes I'm just not feeling it.

Sean Bjerke: You know I'm just like, I'm going and, but the fact that you can navigate the space and not make it about you.

Sean Bjerke: You know, like, if, if I, if we're in class and I'm doing something I see you're kind of like, you know, doing your thing I'm like, hey Tyler like, try it this way.

Sean Bjerke: You could choose to be like, you know, Sean I don't have the energy today all right so just leave me alone. Like, the fact that you could probably take that and be like, okay,

Sean Bjerke: you know, and then you, you do what you need to do with it, without making a scene that's really valuable as like, a like, for me as a teacher like, to have a student like, you'd be able to do that. Not everyone does that.

Sean Bjerke: So I just try through, you know, consistency it's like, trying to create a nice space where people feel like, they can come in, they can learn something it's okay to mess up.

Sean Bjerke: And there's all, there's something beyond the class to it's like, there's other stuff you can do with this beyond just this if you want to pursue it. If you want to just take class,

Sean Bjerke: that's cool I'm not going to I'm not going to like, force you to do anything you don't want to, but I think as a team, especially with us, you know,

Sean Bjerke: street club dances like this, it's important to know, like, the classroom is, it is not where this stuff was born. It was born in very, very different space.

Sean Bjerke: Very different lifestyles we're doing it in ways that are very different than we're learning it.

Sean Bjerke: But if this is how you start to learn, great. If you enjoy it, great! Just know there's something beyond it, that is also worth pursuing if you want to learn more about it. It's a culture, you know, that every culture has its things where you're like, egh.

Sean Bjerke: But if you want to, if you want to learn about it, like, you got, you gotta, you got to do it if you want to be about it.

Sean Bjerke: So, and for some people like, that's the it's the club. It's like, for you Tyler, like, you're like, yo I want to go to the club that looks, that's, that's fun.

Sean Bjerke: But some people are really like, oh man I don't want to run into people that are, that I don't know, or maybe they're going to say something, or maybe I don't like the music, they get in their head about it, you know? Like, all these, all these preconceived things like, ugh.

Sean Bjerke: But if you just kind of go in with an open mind, and, you know, as long as you feel safe, you know,

Sean Bjerke: you're going to get a lot out of it.

Tyler T Hamer: Well I think that's also a credit to you as a teacher, though, because I remember the first, I remember originally like, right, Mike and I,

Tyler T Hamer: for context Mike's another student of Sean's, the dance studio, Mike and I,

Tyler T Hamer: you know, when you first started talking about the club events, Mike and I originally like, well I'll go if you go right? It's the fact that we had

Tyler T Hamer: this healthy community that maybe take that jump from going to, from just out of class into the club scene, so I think it's honestly that's really a credit to the culture that you've,

Tyler T Hamer: that you've created in your classes and stuff like that. Because I, I could easily see it like, if I were in a lot of other dance classes, I don't know if I would have taken the leap to going to like, the club and exploring that avenue, because it is really intimidating.

Sean Bjerke: Huh.

Sean Bjerke: Yeah to like, show up and then like, try to get down in front of people you don't know,

Tyler T Hamer: Yeah.

Sean Bjerke: that's very vulnerable, it's a vulnerable space.

Sean Bjerke: Some people are really good at letting themselves be vulnerable, that they can walk in and just do whatever and they don't think two things about it, but a lot of us, you know, especially

Sean Bjerke: the, the,

Sean Bjerke: the region that we live in in Cambridge, you guys being from MIT, you're used to being under like, pressure like, lots of

Sean Bjerke: pressure.

Sean Bjerke: Like a lot of consequences if you don't live up to the pressure, you know? If you, if you let the pressure, you know, do this to you like, literally,

Sean Bjerke: like there's consequences to that. And I think through experience like, that it's easy to take that mindset to things like, dance and be like, oh God like, if I make any mistake I'm going to get

Sean Bjerke: squished right? But that's that's my big thing with dances like, I wanted, I think I used to feel like that with a lot of things and then, when I met the right people,

Sean Bjerke: I,

Sean Bjerke: I saw how many different sides to it there were and how many different ways there were to approach it. It's like, it's not a one size fits all it's, you know, there's many different

Sean Bjerke: things that you can get from this and if you don't get it this one way,

Sean Bjerke: you know, there's there's other ways that you can you can enjoy it. And sometimes that's a class thing, it's like, people can come to my class and I don't think my teaching style is for everybody, you know, there's people that come in and they're probably like,

Sean Bjerke: I want something different, you know? Like, I don't want to just do like, foundation, I want something different. Cool! So sometimes like, just taking my class might be like, I want something else, you know, and it helps people, you know, going in another direction.

Sean Bjerke: And then, some people come in and they think it's like, the opposite they're like, man, I was expecting to be like, terrified

Sean Bjerke: of this class, because it was so new, I didn't know anything about house, I didn't know these people, and then they come out and they're like, but I feel like, rejuvenated, because it's such a, like a positive atmosphere at least I try to create it like that.

Sean Bjerke: But yeah everyone has different experiences I have to be, you know, aware of that and not like, try to force it, but the people that, that have been on the journey with me they they seem to really have gotten a lot out of it, so I appreciate the kind words.

Jordan Ugalde: So to elaborate on this a bit more you teach specifically house dance, you've been doing, specifically like, edm house dance. There's a lot of types of dances like, ballroom dance, tap dance, B boying, what led you to take this specific dance route that you've taken?

Sean Bjerke: Huh that's a really good question, so I, like, when I started dancing I didn't really have any like, particular focus, I was just learning choreographed routines that

Sean Bjerke: might have been like, inspired by certain styles, but ultimately, I was, I was like, yo if this group is dancing to this music that I like, I'm gonna I want to learn what the dance is.

Sean Bjerke: Excuse me, and then, when I graduated I, I met my first, I guess like, dance mentor. His name was Ricardo Foster jr. And he still lives in this area, he teaches over at the

Sean Bjerke: Funk Phenomenon Dance Complex in Everett. And he, he was actually somewhat, and still is like, a like a dance prodigy like, he could learn all of it.

Sean Bjerke: And he had really good teachers, hard teachers that like, you know, made him really

Sean Bjerke: be honest about like, what it was like, yo you want to be good you gotta like, you got to go in. So he learned so much and he had a really strong street dance background like, hip hop, he knew how to, he can pop, he does house, locking.

Sean Bjerke: He was actually a very big kind of figure in the crump community when crump was starting to become more popular around here in the early to mid 2000s.

Sean Bjerke: Now it's very, actually there's a lot of different crump communities, but he was like, a jack of all trades as it came to dance.

Sean Bjerke: He was classically trained too, he could do ballet and all this stuff. So he was the first person to show me house and when I started learning it, like, again, these are just kind of like, what we learned Tyler, just, we learn it as the steps.

Tyler T Hamer: Right yeah.

Sean Bjerke: But he like, puts some like, routines together for us and the music was what really was like, hyghh.

Sean Bjerke: Like when I heard like, deep house music like, like, New York house music, for the first time, I'm like, what the bleep is this? And it's,

Sean Bjerke: that it's not everyone's going to have that response to it, but for me that was my response I was like, this music is great. I was actually not a big music person growing up.

Sean Bjerke: And I felt weird about it, because everyone in middle school and high school,

Sean Bjerke: like, was always talking about like, what bands they liked what rappers they liked whatever, and I never really had anything to like, contribute to that conversation.

Sean Bjerke: But it wasn't to say that I didn't listen to music I just didn't, I wasn't like, invested in it, you know? Like, I would hear something and I'm like, this is cool.

Sean Bjerke: I like, this. But when I started hearing house music, I feel like, that kind of like, changed, and I was, I wanted to really explore that space.

Sean Bjerke: And what helped me, what helped me, really get into the, I guess the culture of house, outside of just learning the dance which Ricardo was my first teacher.

Sean Bjerke: There wasn't anyone teaching house in like, a studio. This is just an our dance company that we worked in, it was just a little bit.

Sean Bjerke: I had to let go on YouTube and, basically, I was like, I want to learn more like, house dance tutorials.

Sean Bjerke: You find some things, and, you know, that's a whole nother rabbit hole I could get into but basically you find some things, I started to teach myself what I what I learned.

Sean Bjerke: But I didn't start to really like, dance dance until I met a couple guys in Boston, their names are Sammy SavSoul and Steve Garcia, who invited me to like, yo, you should, you should, you know some stuff, you should come to the club and dance with us. And I was like,

Sean Bjerke: a little apprehensive because they, they, if you saw these guys get down like, they know what they're doing and they they look good at whatever they're doing.

Sean Bjerke: So when I started going to dance with them, with their experience at first, I was like, shit, I don't know, it was like, the Taekwondo thing like, I don't know anything I thought I knew stuff but I don't know I don't know what they're doing.

Sean Bjerke: And

Sean Bjerke: I spent more time around them and I started to like, you know, change my mindset about how to approach the dance and like, what was actually important about it and

Sean Bjerke: the kind of going like, just going back a step, I, you know, apart from the music, the movement of house felt like a

Sean Bjerke: a smoother version of my Taekwondo. Like, it was movements that I was like, I can do this move, and it feels really good, and I don't have to get hit by somebody to like do it.

Sean Bjerke: Though, you know, I, the movement felt very like, almost like, second nature in a way, but at the same time, I still I had to work on the qualities that made it smooth and that made it effortless. I couldn't go into it like, bah bah bah.

Sean Bjerke: You know I can use that to inspire my dance which I'm kind of that's kind of the journey I'm on right now is actually putting my Taekwondo inside of my, my house which is kinda like, my own thing.

Sean Bjerke: But then I was just, I was doing literally the steps, I was shown and, but they felt good.

Sean Bjerke: So the moment felt good, the music felt good, and when I started going to the clubs, the vibe felt really good I was like, oh like,

Sean Bjerke: I see these same people every time I come out, I don't necessarily know who they are but I can like, get down with them and they're cool. So seeing the power that it had to,

Sean Bjerke: to bring people together, house, I would say, out of like, a lot of the, you know, the club styles of dance the street styles of dance is more of a communal

Sean Bjerke: type energy. Like, people don't really go into the club space to like, battle each other. You might get people that are like, you know, they, they're high level, and they want to just kind of like, throw down, just to be like, all right, let's do it.

Tyler T Hamer: Sure, yeah.

Sean Bjerke: You know, but it's more of an exchange. It's like, all right, like, I'm going to give my best, let me, let me see what you got.

Sean Bjerke: But it doesn't, you don't come out of it feeling like, somebody won or somebody was better it's just, you know, they experienced the music in that moment, and they got to put on a show.

Sean Bjerke: So I think I liked that it wasn't a very, it's a dance you could be competitive in if you want it to be, but you don't have to be to like, enjoy it.

Sean Bjerke: So yeah all those things.

HERE 51:55

Tyler T Hamer: No that's fair, I remember, before I found your class I thought I was going to do, like, hip hop and it was just so it was always choreographed, very rigid and then

Tyler T Hamer: when I went ended up going to your class, it was very much like, okay yeah I'm going to teach you a certain set of moves, and this is the language we talk with, but now you're,

Tyler T Hamer: you're free to express yourself with that language, you're not, you're, and then share ideas with it because, like, you were saying,

Tyler T Hamer: you know you're not necessarily going down going to battle each other I'm going to show you something and then maybe you'll sync up with me or will, you know, do a bunch of the same moves together.

Jordan Ugalde: Yeah I think there's a lot of in what what type of dance you choose to pursue says a lot about you. Like, if you commit to it there's a lot that that style says. Because for me, I actually really enjoyed doing ballroom dance and tap dance which both of those have.

Sean Bjerke: You tap?

Jordan Ugalde: I tap yeah I tap.

Jordan Ugalde: It's been a while it's been a while.

Jordan Ugalde: But I started in high school and I did it in college as well.

Jordan Ugalde: But yeah like, tap dance there is some freedom, but you are very strictly on the rhythm, you are, you are the drum.

Sean Bjerke: You make your rhythm.

Jordan Ugalde: Yeah, yeah you make the rhythm.

Sean Bjerke: That's sick.

Jordan Ugalde: Yeah.

Sean Bjerke: Tap is.

Sean Bjerke: Yeah.

Jordan Ugalde: It's fun, I think it's under appreciated, it's, some of the moves are really hard.

Jordan Ugalde: But also some of the greats have been heavily influenced by tap like, the Michael Jackson's moonwalk is influenced by a tap dance step. I forgot the name of it, but like, there, is, it's a, it's not a pullback.

Sean Bjerke: I know what you mean.

Jordan Ugalde: Exactly he.

Sean Bjerke: Cuz someone has talked about that.

Jordan Ugalde: Yeah but yeah, like, you saying you you like the freedom of house

Jordan Ugalde: is, I think that says a lot about who you are, as a person.

Sean Bjerke: Yeah and honestly I think it's like, even like, you know, my perspective is evolved and changed a little bit over time, too, because initially when I was presented with it

Sean Bjerke: it was actually structured. It was like, you know, the movements went together in a way that made sense and I liked the flow of it, and then, when I started to be more free I was like, oh man it's like, the iceberg again like.

Sean Bjerke: I was presented with this, but then, when I saw what you could do, it was like, holy cow there's no limit. There's actually no limit. Like, the fact that I'm trying to put, you know, my martial arts experience in it now that's like, a different iceberg.

Sean Bjerke: Right? Next to my, oh man I got to explore that one, and I just wanted to touch on something that Tyler said, where Tyler, you said uh, you know, you wanted to try hip hop and I guess like, maybe the class you took just didn't know it didn't work out like.

Sean Bjerke: Depending on the teacher, I think the teacher actually makes a big difference with whatever you're studying, which is why, like, my Taekwondo school,

Sean Bjerke: if the teacher relationship wasn't as good as it was I might not have stayed there. But the fact that it was I was like, oh shoot I recognize it right away I'm like, I can learn a lot from this guy.

Sean Bjerke: And I think that's something that's helped me over time is like, I can identify the right people to, you know, learn from the right people to be around, and I can sense when it's not right.

Sean Bjerke: Like pretty quick, you know, like, you can walk into a space you're like, it's like, the record scratch like, errrrr.

Sean Bjerke: But like, if you if it feels right in that moment instincts are it's probably right. Then maybe over time, who knows, maybe it changes, a little bit, but like, in the moment I think if you can identify the right energy for you that's really, really critical skill that can help a lot.

Jordan Ugalde: Yeah actually directly on those lines, I think that it's very much a learned skill to be able to identify who to learn from because that is not always easy.

Jordan Ugalde: And we all develop our own heuristics to try and best guess who would be best for us to learn from so I'm just curious with what you're doing,

Jordan Ugalde: what, what kind of things you look at to try and identify

Jordan Ugalde: who is someone good to learn from.

Sean Bjerke: That's a, that's actually an excellent question and I think what helps me determine that is the fact that I've had a lot of good teachers from when I was young.

Sean Bjerke: So that way, I could formulate like, I don't like, I don't know if I could like, write out like, bullet points like, exactly what it is, but like, in the moment, having had

Sean Bjerke: you know, good mentors good relationships with teachers from when I was very young, to now, I would say, with as far as like, dance goes the closer somebody is to like,

Sean Bjerke: I don't want to say, like, the center but kind of like, the the source material like, house is a club a freestyle club dance.

Sean Bjerke: So the people that spent a lot of time in that atmosphere, when it was like, coming up when it was like, becoming a thing and then those people that started to create methods for teaching it effectively. Some people create methods that aren't effective some people do.

Sean Bjerke: Those people that created effective teaching methods, over time, they kept the essence from where they came from.

Sean Bjerke: Added their own methods into like, structure it and communicated the importance of both of those things to their students. So if you don't know really what,

Sean Bjerke: if you don't have much experience with learning something like, dance or like, just movement, mobility in general you're gonna probably go with the first person that you find that

Sean Bjerke: their personality is a good fit, you know? That's like, oh this person's nice I like their teaching style cool I'll learn it.

Sean Bjerke: But I think over time you start to you see the the quality. Quality in a teacher. Like, you, if if you go to a class and, like, the teacher, you know, looks amazing and the students look like, boo boo chowder.

Sean Bjerke: That's nothing, nothing against like, beginners like, beginners are obviously going to be very far distance from the teacher, but if the beginners look like, they have an idea of what they're following.

Sean Bjerke: What, if their quality is not as good, then it's like, oh okay this teacher knows how to communicate, right? So communication is key good communication.

Sean Bjerke: The quality like, you look at, you know, kind of like, the gradient of students like, oh, those are the advanced students, they look sharp, the beginner students, they might not look sharp but they, they're, they're into it right? They know what they're doing.

Sean Bjerke: So, like, you look at the quality of the students too over time and then, as far as like, the teaching

Sean Bjerke: curriculum, or like, what they teach, I guess that's just yeah. That's another reason why you want to kind of invest time into stuff like, this, as if you get

Sean Bjerke: it right away, it feels good, but then you feel like, oh it's just I'm not really like, I don't see where I can evolve.

Sean Bjerke: Teachers that teachers that give you the next steps to evolve, not necessarily like, they're going too fast, like, oh, we have to go here, here, here but it's like, okay we're doing this today,

Sean Bjerke: but this is going to lead to this up here.

Tyler T Hamer: Right yeah.

Sean Bjerke: Those bridges, and you're like, oh shoot that's what like, pulls you into want to learn more from them right? If it's like, you, they give you this and it looks like, this is it, it's like,

Sean Bjerke: I don't know if I'm going to go anywhere with this long term. But, you know, sometimes that's good, sometimes like, you realize you, you get to a certain point where you've, you've, you've gotten what you need.

Sean Bjerke: And then it's like, okay now I'm going to find someone else that maybe it can,

Sean Bjerke: take it to that next level. When you start you don't necessarily know what goals you have like, I always hated it when people in, when I was in college they're like, yo what are you gonna do, you know, when you graduate and I'm like, fuck if I know like.

Tyler T Hamer: Yeah.

Sean Bjerke: You know, and my mom was always like, not to not to rag on my mom, but when I, y'know my wife now like, when we were dating my moms like, when you gonna marry, when you gonna marry her, when you gonna marry her, and I'm like,

Sean Bjerke: I'm gonna marry her just when I feel right. Like,

Sean Bjerke: you know, sometimes you just don't know, but I think with the experience you start to develop what you need from a teacher. So it's like, the things that I look for might not be like, what you look for but

Sean Bjerke: I know what's good for me and that helps me learn the best I can.

Tyler T Hamer: No that's fair like, I think there's like, a definitely really big importance there, and like, identifying what you need to personally learn because, like, I think one of the,

Tyler T Hamer: personally, one of the things I've adopted as for my engineering background is I like, to go back to first, it's called first principles, but basically the

Tyler T Hamer: building blocks when I'm learning something new, and the reason I stuck with your class Sean was I remember it was exploration week at the dance complex and

Tyler T Hamer: that's why I went to the hip hop class and

Tyler T Hamer: Carl's party dance class, but in your class, since it was the

Tyler T Hamer: exploration week you're like, we're going to clap and we're going to make sure everyone understands what like, the beat is before even started moving our feet and I was like, okay now I can actually.

Tyler T Hamer: And like, you also taught us like, how to count, I remember like, you're like, all right here is in this set amount of time we can break into 4ths, 8ths.

Tyler T Hamer: And and you're like, and after this if you want, you can listen to music and try to count out different beats and that kind of gave me a foundation, where I can be like, okay,

Tyler T Hamer: I can actually start building from this versus like, you know. I do like, trial by fire, but only once, I like, have some background. I just can't go from like, zero into trial by fire.

Sean Bjerke: If it was right off the bat you'd be like, eeeeeee.

Tyler T Hamer: Yeah.

Sean Bjerke: Can I saw my charger really quick? I don't want my laptop to crap out.

Jordan Ugalde: Yeah go ahead, go ahead.

Jordan Ugalde: So while while he's away,

Jordan Ugalde: it's all good, so along these lines, my mom's a teacher and I think she's a pretty great teacher. One of the big things that I learned from her is

Jordan Ugalde: how difficult it is, like, she's she was a teacher for most grades throughout grade school and one things I learned from her is just how difficult it is to customize learning

Jordan Ugalde: to all the different types of kids. Kike, there are so many different kids who learn in such different ways that trying to be a good teacher to everyone, without doing some customization to the kids is just, you're not, you don't have a bad time. Like, the the more individual,

Jordan Ugalde: like either you take the approach of your teacher with this is my style and it's up to you the student

Jordan Ugalde: to make sure you find someone who has a good style or, you may, it's up to the student to find a teacher who has the right style for them. Or in in public school you don't really have that choice so

Jordan Ugalde: it's on the teacher, to make sure that they customize teaching to the different needs of the students and that's hard. Like, teaching takes a lot of still and it is, it can be a challenge.

Tyler T Hamer: And I mean

Tyler T Hamer: one thing I think, having been your teacher or your your student for so long Sean has been like, actually watching you change and

Tyler T Hamer: especially in the beginner class of the approach you've taken like, over time, like, I definitely remember when like, when I first went it was

Tyler T Hamer: way, it was more focused on the steps, and now like, a lot of the beginner classes, you'll you'll have a star in a circle and focus on the energy and getting everyone into that good headspace even before we try to, so people are willing to tackle what you're about to give them.

Sean Bjerke: Yeah that's the, and I mentioned earlier, how like, you know, my mindset is always continuously kind of changing

Sean Bjerke: and, you know, that came from like, discussions with some of my mentors and, you know, big brothers big sisters about

Sean Bjerke: you know, what's important about the dance is the is the vibe, you know, is the energy like, it, you can have all these steps, but if you're just in a room of people that are like, boop boop boop like, that, like, the energy is just kind of like,

Sean Bjerke: like non existent it's like, why are we even doing this? Like, why are we, why are we, like, forcing ourselves to like, learn all these things that, excuse me, if we don't really feel good doing it.

Sean Bjerke: So yeah like, putting people in a circle and just like, sometimes like, you have to do that with adults is like, all right we're gonna clap, BAP, you know, like, and it's like, everyone can clap and, you know, probably some people off the bat are like ehhhhhhhh.

Sean Bjerke: But like, if they see other people like, enjoying themselves it's like, osmosis sometimes you need to be around people

Sean Bjerke: doing, I think that's what the best thing about like, class versus when people learn, you know, from online sources like, online sources are good, because

Sean Bjerke: you have the flexibility to learn, when you like, but being around people and, just like, seeing how other people respond sometimes rubs off on you in a good way where, you know, you have one person that's like, ughhh.

Sean Bjerke: Just clapping and the person next to them is like

Sean Bjerke: BAP BAP BAP.

Sean Bjerke: They're making faces and then this person's like, ohhhhh.

Sean Bjerke: Okay, I can have a little more fun with it cool. So it takes the idea way of this being kind of like, a kid exercise and it's like, all right I'm gonna, this is productive for me is actually a good thing.

Sean Bjerke: So yeah building the energy, building the vibe is is like, number one and then, once people have that enthusiasm like,

Sean Bjerke: yo let's go let's like, what's next, like, all right here's some steps let's, you know, let's use them. Let's, and, and I actually got an email from a dude last week, who he was taking the class, for the first time,

Sean Bjerke: he's like, yeah the first, but our the class I was like, a blast and he's like, then, I felt like, I got lost when we're doing like, the steps and I'm like,

Sean Bjerke: yeah man, this is your, A your first dance class, B it's like, a genre that like, no one isn't really teaching in this in this region so it's probably very new,

Sean Bjerke: and C it's like, as fast, you know? Like, it's if it's new it's going to be feel like, really fast so

Sean Bjerke: you had the experience that should be expected, you know? When when it was like, very loose very kind of informal,

Sean Bjerke: like, it was fun. Good. So then, when you start to like, really learn that's when you have to kind of focus a little harder.

Sean Bjerke: And if you keep doing it you're going to get somewhere, I told him about you guys like, there's people in the class that when they started, you know, they like, left was right up was down.

Sean Bjerke: You know, like, everything was clicking but they just, they found something that they liked in it that, over time, they made it work and they started to evolve.

Sean Bjerke: You know, over over repetitions so, you know, that's your choice, if you want to be on the journey cool. If not like, I'm glad you tried it, but I think he actually, the same guy, signed up for this week's class, so, you know, hopefully, you know, maybe he starts getting on something.

Tyler T Hamer: Yeah I definitely can relate to him on that too, I remember after the first class when you like, taught us

Tyler T Hamer: like how to count or the one I went to that, where you taught us how to count, that's why I focused on

Tyler T Hamer: kike a couple of classes, after the after I listened to enough music counting and I felt comfortable with that I was like, I'm gonna focus on like, getting good at one of the steps.

Tyler T Hamer: I remember, I was like, I think Sean taught us pas de bourrée, I can't spell that, so I can't look it up. I'm just gonna try to recreate it on my own, and I wasn't good at it at first, but now it's like, that's like, bread and butter, so it takes that time to get up to it.

Sean Bjerke: When I first learned,

Sean Bjerke: not even learned, when when someone first showed me what loose legs was I had absolutely no idea what was going on.

Sean Bjerke: And now it's my best step.

Sean Bjerke: Right? Ot's the one that I feel the most comfortable in it's the one I have a lot of just like, variety in, but when I first saw it, the brain body was completely like, byewww.

Sean Bjerke: The two ships passed.

Sean Bjerke: But when I had the time to just kind of sit down and work on it myself like, I found I think probably like, one of Jardy's tutorials Jardy Santiago was he's a dancer on the west coast who,

Sean Bjerke: I found a lot of his online resources when I was first looking up stuff. And a lot of people around the world have had the same kind of,

Sean Bjerke: you know, experience with that. So he was actually really instrumental person in my my upbringing, but when I, when he broke it down,

Sean Bjerke: and I was able to spend time with it, I found my like, my groove and and I felt oh, this is how like, I just keep doing it. I don't know what I was doing before, but whatever is happening now, it's working so sometimes you need that time.

Tyler T Hamer: And then I guess another point I wanted to touch on was going just back to the to the clapping and people thinking it's child or like, thinking it's childish.

Sean Bjerke: No one's ever like, come out and said that but I can tell.

Tyler T Hamer: Yeah, no I know.

Sean Bjerke: From like, facial like, uhhhhh.

Tyler T Hamer: Well, it just funnny though, because, like, now, when I go to like, your advanced classes, the hardest thing you ever have us do is dance and clap at the same time. Like, it is brutal like, it's like, ughh.

Tyler T Hamer: He's like, it's not like, yeah we're not gonna do any hard moves we're just going to clap during and I'm like, I'm gonna have a bad time, I need to do this, but it's going to be such a pain.

Sean Bjerke: Yeah, poly rhythms like, body's doing one thing, hands are doing something else, and that can be that can break somebody's day man like, that,

Sean Bjerke: that game.

Jordan Ugalde: And to clarify for those who aren't familiar poly rhythms are you doing two different beats at the same time, so like, 1 2 3 1 2 3, 1 2 1 2 and then together it's like, *snaps polythrhythms*

Sean Bjerke: yeah.

Sean Bjerke: it's and it's like, how how drummers learn how to drum.

Jordan Ugalde: Yeah it's, it's a hard skill to learn, I actually one of my cousins has been doing, music, for his entire life and,

Jordan Ugalde: basically, had exercises combining basically any number, you could think of like, 2 3, 3 5,7 9, crazy.

Sean Bjerke: You know, like, that's what's up. That's I mean that's actually the kind of stuff, though, like, that, like, I would love to like, meet him at some point, and just like, give me your drills man.

Sean Bjerke: Like if dancers approach dance like musicians approach music, I think dancers would actually be like, way better than they than they are now.

Sean Bjerke: A lot of them, and I think that's the reason, a lot of the older generations of street dancers.

Sean Bjerke: They were a lot of them were martial artists, a lot of them were musicians, so they like, understood movement beyond what they were doing.

Sean Bjerke: And they understood the music beyond what they just heard when they were listening to their favorite songs like, they could like, break all that stuff down and bring it back.

Sean Bjerke: Like you just said, you know, all the different permutations and computations until it's like, they were just masters of their body and their mind.

Sean Bjerke: Music and the and the moment they mastered it so like, you see people in their 50s now some of these guys from New York and

Sean Bjerke: some other countries too, they do things that nobody else does and it's like, man what there's so many like, young dancers, that are like, very talented they have a lot of skill, but

Sean Bjerke: that, that musical thing that, you know, Brian Green does or, you know, like, DJ G like, one of my teachers.

Sean Bjerke: Like, it looks so simple but it's not it's like, I can't wrap my head around it, but I could learn that fancy move that that guys doing, I could learn it if I practiced enough, but the conceptual music stuff.

Sean Bjerke: Crazy.

Jordan Ugalde: Actually directly on those lines, when I was in high school doing musical theater for the first time, I didn't know anything about dancing or singing, I used to be tone deaf better now.

Jordan Ugalde: But I did play instruments, I played guitar and bass and I, I knew my rhythms and there was, in The Music Man,

Jordan Ugalde: there is one song that goes that is 10, 10 8, 10 4, or 10 4, it's it's 10 beats rather than 4 beats and most dancers, we had a choreographer who was also in high school,

Jordan Ugalde: and she was really, she was a great choreographer but she was only used to dancing and making dances in 4 4 so she didn't even.

Sean Bjerke: Most people are.

Jordan Ugalde: Yeah,

Jordan Ugalde: yeah.

Jordan Ugalde: No it's it's the standard beat, and for those

Jordan Ugalde: who aren't familiar it's like, 1 2 3 4, 1 2 3 4 or anything like, that, whereas "shapoopie, shapoopie, shapoopie, the girl that's hard to get" it that's 10, that's 10 right there. So she was trying to write a dance for that part and kept on getting tripped up like, why is this not, why am I, on the wrong step.

Jordan Ugalde: Because she feels lost.

Jordan Ugalde: Yeah yeah yeah and it's to me who wasn't a dancer but was a musician I was, I was confused why she was confused and she was confused why I was confused and eventually we talked through the confusion, but it was, it's really interesting to see just the different ways that

Jordan Ugalde: different people from different backgrounds learn effectively the same thing, approach the same thing.

Sean Bjerke: That's huge and

Sean Bjerke: oh sorry go on, I'll let you finish.

Tyler T Hamer: Oh, I was just gonna say it's,

Tyler T Hamer: funny, because, like, having a, right, I played clarinet growing up, and now I've decided to stop being a masochist saxophone looks way better, but like,

Tyler T Hamer: even though I played jazz clarinet and I have a music background like you Jordan,

Tyler T Hamer: I loath playing out of 4/4. Like, I like, I like, I understood it, but it was just never a skill I flexed because I was like, let's just go play the 4 music or the 4 3 nothing like, anything like, super crazy.

Sean Bjerke: Yep Tyler it's like, when I'm like, alright guys we're in the kick

Sean Bjerke: and now

Sean Bjerke: We are in the hi hat.

Tyler T Hamer: Yeah it's being off half a beat is probably the bane of my existence.

Sean Bjerke: It feels so gross, it feels so gross when you're like, I can't get it like, like, you're just looking for it but.

Sean Bjerke: Yeah I mean it's, it's like, any like, you said, like, I like, the four four and I can do the other stuff but it's just, ugh.

Sean Bjerke: That that's, you know, it shows you how deep this stuff can go and the fact that the first people to teach hip hop, the first people to teach house like, effectly in studios,

Sean Bjerke: were, excuse me, were, were African American who, whose experience and culture is deeply rooted in complex rhythms, you know, African dance like, dance from South America dances from the Caribbean.

Sean Bjerke: All those dance like, you can't, this is one thing that Brian Green who's, you know, a very high level dancer in in house and, you know, a bunch of things, tap.

Sean Bjerke: He said, like, you could not, and this is probably what was told to him by his teachers, you could not dedicate your life to learning African dance and learn all of it.

Sean Bjerke: There's so much that you couldn't learn all of it, which is crazy to like, think about, because I think a lot of times, especially for younger folks in America that, that start to dance.

Sean Bjerke: You know, especially in like, street dances they're like, oh yeah there's there's hip hop there's popping and locking and house and breaking and crump and.

Sean Bjerke: You know I miss, I'm missing some, but like, there's basically this, to their eyes, there's this kind of finite number of dances that are worth pursuing.

Sean Bjerke: That are in this umbrella, but like, outside of that it's like, this is like, .0001% of all the dances. It's just those dances are super visible

Sean Bjerke: in like, the mainstream. So like, whenever anyone says the word hip hop there is no one on the planet, that goes what's,

Sean Bjerke: like that's a new word to me. Like, like, everyone's heard it, you know? It's like, Lebron James everyone knows of Lebron James, you know, but there's a bunch of other basketball players, you know, besides him, before him, during like.

Sean Bjerke: The stuff that's most visible, sometimes we just convince ourselves like, that's what's most important but all, there's these other things that had that inform them like tap, you said tap Jordan, tap informs so many

Sean Bjerke: things that have come after it, but sometimes tap doesn't really get its due because, you know, we don't we don't see necessarily

Sean Bjerke: tap in its most beautiful form all the time, or like, we don't understand it, you know? I've seen people that do tap that it's like, I think they're good

Sean Bjerke: but there's not like, like, there's not a connection. And then I'll see people that like, there is a connection where I'm like, oh shoot they're like, really pulling me in and then it's like.

Sean Bjerke: Oh man I just, I kind of I see what's going on, I respect it, but if there's not that connection initially it feels kind of like, ehhhhh.

Sean Bjerke: All right.

Jordan Ugalde: Well it's something that I think is difficult, with honestly any kind of performing art and the evolution of arts over time is

Jordan Ugalde: being culturally relevant like, having,

Jordan Ugalde: having, having appeal outside of just the core group. Like, so I would, I have my biggest passion that was most consistent throughout my life was music.

Jordan Ugalde: And the people who were writing music in the early 1900s in the classical, in the western classical scene, went in very, very weird directions that I think are very interesting but

Jordan Ugalde: were very, very offputting to everyone else and at, as the classical composers went in that direction, pop music, rock music, jazz those came to the forefront, and those started becoming the,

Jordan Ugalde: the major types of music that people listen to. So like, with dance like, tap dance it a couple decades ago was huge, but now there have been so many things that have evolved from it that are a lot more

Jordan Ugalde: culturally relevant now, that like,

Jordan Ugalde: it's just interesting to see how much overall cultural optics play into what dances are mainstream and not.

Sean Bjerke: Yeah and like, what's taught like, what people want to teach, you know, that's why like, hip hop like, you, you have

Sean Bjerke: classes called like, titled hip hop all over the place, because that's the the term that people like, hip hop is that cool, avant garde like, hip thing to do, you know?

Sean Bjerke: But then, you know, Tyler was talking about like, probably some of the classes, that you took, you know, weren't actually that.

Sean Bjerke: And that goes also back to the question that Jordan asked about like, you know, how do you know what teachers to learn from, and I think sometimes you have to go,

Sean Bjerke: that can be part of the journey is learning who not to learn from like, you have to kind of go through that and so like, sometimes it feels rough because it's,

Sean Bjerke: if you learn from somebody that initially is like, yeah this is good, and then later, you find out like, man like, the stuff they were telling me wasn't actually like, that valid.

Sean Bjerke: But you learn, if you want to learn from that it's like, okay now I gotta have like, I got to like, know the background of some of this stuff I have to actually do a little bit of homework

Sean Bjerke: on my own to maybe come into it. Kike, all right, I heard the basics of, you know, the basics of house like, I've heard about the jack, I've heard about footwork, I've heard about

Sean Bjerke: you know, floorwork I've heard about these things. So if I'm teaching, something that is completely not even closely remotely related to that stuff you can be like,

Sean Bjerke: is this, is this, did I sign up for the right class? Did I come into, you know, something completely different, or is this, is this house?

Sean Bjerke: And I tell my student like, I'll tell students like, it's okay to ask teachers questions in like, a respectful way if you

Sean Bjerke: literally are not sure that they're right. You know, like, you're like, I know people will ask me questions that are like

Sean Bjerke: oh, you know, like, you said this, but like, I thought this and it actually sometimes makes me think about it, like, huh that's actually a good perspective.

Sean Bjerke: But then I can say okay, this is my experience with this and if I can't answer the question I'll be like, ask this person, this person can answer it.

Sean Bjerke: But sometimes I think you'll, you'll have I actually heard about I don't know the name but like, there was somebody that was teaching a like, a locking class.

Sean Bjerke: Like a Funk dance in in New York and someone who was like, a like, an O G locker who is like, doing it for a long time went to the class and basically,

Sean Bjerke: I'll just say this, the person that was teaching that class doesn't teach locking anymore.

Tyler T Hamer: Damn, wow.

Sean Bjerke: Yeah but, like, you have to like, if you're teaching something like that in New York, you know, or well, I mean locking came from the west coast, but like,

Sean Bjerke: New York is looked at as like, you know, street dance Mecca in the US. If you're teaching something like that in New York,

Sean Bjerke: you have to be on your A+++ game at all times, because you never know when someone who's like, this level just comes into your space because it's it's very it's like, it's like, COVID in April 2020 it's like, you never know when it's coming,

Sean Bjerke: into your space yeah.

Sean Bjerke: Now it's maybe not as crazy, but then like, we're all like, yo you gotta be on guard.

Sean Bjerke: And it's, not to say that if you live elsewhere, like, you, don't have to be on guard, but like, for me personally, like, I wouldn't teach, I wouldn't teach house if I didn't think I had something to contribute.

Sean Bjerke: And like, a lot of my teachers who, you know, I pay a lot of respect to, they have given me like, their their blessing like, like, yeah you like.

Sean Bjerke: You know, we have, maybe more experience than you, but like, what like, I like, we see what you're doing and like, what you say.

Sean Bjerke: Like it's good like, do it like, keep doing it, keep keep the same approach, so the fact that I can have people that, you know, are African American people that, you know,

Sean Bjerke: might say, like, they like, they have a little ownership over the dance, you know, that they started to teach,

Sean Bjerke: that are saying like, Sean you're doing cool like, for me that's like, huge, because otherwise I would quite, I would question, I still questioned myself sometimes like, oh, could I be doing this better or whatever.

Sean Bjerke: But, like, the fact that they've given me like, the little, you know, pat on the back is like, you're on the, you know, you're on the right path, because I have to remember a lot of them were actually like, 20

Sean Bjerke: when they probably started to teach like, early 20s and no one in their early 20s knows exactly what they're doing, yet. They might be good at what they're doing but they might not really understand it until like, 10 20 years later.

Sean Bjerke: They've had that time to kind of be like, oh shoot the way I was doing that back when I was 20,

Sean Bjerke: I can't do that anymore like, I just it doesn't work. This way is better that I've learned over time, you know, and then whith teaching,

Sean Bjerke: it's the same. Like, I'm gonna, Tyler like, probably in 10 years I'll say like, five to 10 years I'll probably get where I need to teaching-wise I'll be like, okay now I've got everything how I want to teach it.

Sean Bjerke: Some things I think I have close to it now, but I think over time I'm going to find like, okay, if I wanted to teach this group, this is what I need to give, them this group, this is what I, this is what I need to give them.

Sean Bjerke: But sometimes you have to just go through the the trial and error of like, teaching something or showing something and it's like, okay well that didn't go well.

Sean Bjerke: And then next time you do it you're like, okay now I'm prepared, now I am a better I'm going to be better at communicating this.

Sean Bjerke: And I think a lot of those guys like, a lot of those teachers that are like, super, you know, high level and, like, in demand all over the world.

Sean Bjerke: When they started teaching, they were also in demand, because no one else was teaching it but they probably didn't know anywhere close to what they're teaching now, then.

Sean Bjerke: Like how to communicate it well enough, but it takes time.

Tyler T Hamer: No that's fair and I think, one really strong are really valuable point that, in what you're saying there,

Tyler T Hamer: really, not just from like, as you as a teacher, like, the trial and error that has to go into it or also just

Tyler T Hamer: a student starting off, in America there's like, a lot of pressure that like, you just have to like, return results like, if you're in the workplace, you have a certain deadline.

Tyler T Hamer: So there's always like, this pressure if you're gonna like, learn something new, or if you're teaching, you have to do it right, right away.

Tyler T Hamer: And there's never people don't give themselves enough grace to be like, it takes time to learn.

Tyler T Hamer: That, if you do something wrong, but you don't do it again, that was a valuable experience, and that is like, very undershadowed especially like,

Tyler T Hamer: coming from like, a research background. Publishing, you can't even though you should you can't write a dissertation about proving something wrong.

Tyler T Hamer: You have to like, do something new, but it's, the mistakes are really valuable and that the ability to iterate and actually be like, you know, to recognize that, like,

Tyler T Hamer: I'm doing what I am doing now and I'm going to take these experiences and reflect and be 5 10 years now, where I want to be. I think that's really super valuable.

Sean Bjerke: Yeah and you talk about, you know, people being hard on themselves in America you look at a lot of these like, I'll use dances as an example dance students in East Asia.

Sean Bjerke: Like there is this insane amount of like, just the need to be like, the top. Or or conforming to like, what the vision of something is so like, you know, how I said Tyler, I say in my class like, try not to look like me.

Tyler T Hamer: Yep all the time.

Sean Bjerke: All the time, like, every class I probably say that in, you know, like, if you go to like, class in Japan they're not necessarily saying,

Sean Bjerke: look like me the teachers not saying look like me, but just the roots of their culture everyone's trying to look like the teacher.

Sean Bjerke: Like period, like, that's, that's it, it's the, it's the conforming and that's a cultural thing.

Sean Bjerke: It's a cultural thing, so, you know, we, we that, we have that here, like, the kind of like, fear of failure or just like, fear of being judged maybe.

Sean Bjerke: But like, is so culturally embedded in some other places that like, that's how they learn. At the same time they're incredibly disciplined I would actually say that US discipline wise,

Sean Bjerke: for like, artistic stuff like, you know, dance are actually behind a lot of other places, because we have it, like, we just have it everywhere so it's easy to take for granted.

Sean Bjerke: But the other places, because they're already like, they were a little behind, they knew they had to work harder to catch up, you know, it's kind of like, like, I said, what is it this person versus this person.

Sean Bjerke: This person might get it right away really fast, but this person that puts the work in over time they might overshadow this person.

Sean Bjerke: You know? And, and you see stuff like, that, with people in Europe, people in in, you know, East Asian countries, they just take that that discipline aspect of their training and they they go to the moon with it. It's crazy.

Jordan Ugalde: Actually, on those lines touching back on martial arts as well, I forgot his name but there's some Muay Thai guy who I think it's like, saencho or like, it's gonna bother me but

Jordan Ugalde: there, he, there, there is a lot of discipline that he brings to the table, and also in the fights that I've seen of his, he

Jordan Ugalde: it's gonna bother me, I'm gonna look up his name, because I wanna remember this

Sean Bjerke: He's a professional fight?

Jordan Ugalde: A professional Muay Thai fighter, who I don't know if he, he might have lost like, one or two matches, but he,

Jordan Ugalde: he has competed for a very long time, I think he he might be retired now, but he

Jordan Ugalde: he is also a really great sport like, he made it's really entertaining.

Jordan Ugalde: He does really entertained performances, but it's just, it's interesting different cultures approach to, honestly every, every, everything yeah dance and martial arts yeah.

Sean Bjerke: Yeah like, and I'll kind of

Sean Bjerke: link

Sean Bjerke: martial arts to like, boxing like, you think of Muhammad Ali.

Sean Bjerke: He was like, he was like, the ultimate performer because he, you know, you couldn't really touch him in the ring and then off camera he was actually very heavily influenced by like, the like, pro wrestling.

Sean Bjerke: In the sense like, pro wrestling they would have like, their interviews they do their like, their, their promos and he created like, this character for himself he's like,

Sean Bjerke: I wish I could like, drop some Mohammed Ali quotes off the top my head I just can't think of any right now, but every anything that you would ever read that you heard that he said you're like, you're allowed to like, say that to like, a dude that you're going to fight and in like a box ring?

Sean Bjerke: The amount of shit that that man talked it was like, it was amazing, you know, and he could back it up, yeah back it up. So confident.

Sean Bjerke: But yeah like, different, different places like, they approached that stuff differently. Some, some people are very stoic, you know, it's like, you, like, the iceman like, you can't,

Sean Bjerke: you can't break through that and then, when they get into the ring it's all business, you know, like, you're like, oh man I didn't really like, that person gave nothing like, the poker face was,

Sean Bjerke: was legit and then they go off. And then some people they talk a big game, and then they get smoked. It's always like, when that happens it's always like, karma, you know, karma always catches up.

Jordan Ugalde: Yeah yeah. I'm also name is, I'm gonna butcher this terribly, Saenchai S A E N C H A I. highly recommend looking up with like, clips of him fighting he is awesome.

Jordan Ugalde: Yeah really cool but on a, on a another different note. Very early on our conversation today, we, you talked about part of what kept you in,

Jordan Ugalde: in biotech and keeping you from leaving your job was the security and the sense of stability.

Jordan Ugalde: And no need for any specific numbers, but like, what you're making now, compared to what you were making just in biotech what is like, the approximate difference in in what you're making, lifestyle, all that jazz.

Sean Bjerke: That's a good question, so it's I'll say like, at the moment I'm making probably less than I was two years ago, because just,

Sean Bjerke: limited opportunities to teach at the moment. Even though we're kind of like, ramping back up, which is cool, I hope I hope it goes keeps going in that direction. But I'll say like, my first year like, hundred percent

Sean Bjerke: teaching

Sean Bjerke: was actually

Sean Bjerke: not super far off from like, what I was making when I left biotech but I really like, put myself out there to like, try to get as much out of it as I could. And

Sean Bjerke: what helped me do that was I was hip to, you know, I had some mentoring from some business coaches to be able to create multiple streams of income, and, you know, I had my teaching.

Sean Bjerke: Like my dance classes, my weekly dance classes, I was open to doing like, you know, one offs like, some workshops and part of like, being a like, a teacher, especially in this area is

Sean Bjerke: knowing like, your your, I guess like, time to output value. It's like, it's like, okay.

Sean Bjerke: If I go teach this type of class like, for this amount of time like, I kind of have to make this amount of money for it to be worth

Sean Bjerke: my time because, if I could spend this time elsewhere doing something, maybe easier, and I can make the same or more money, like, I'm probably going to just, I'm going to pick that most of the time. So knowing like, what your value is and also just knowing what the what kind of

Sean Bjerke: opportunities certain experiences can lead to, because sometimes you might take a job that's,

Sean Bjerke: maybe doesn't pay the best, but you see the opportunity for it to lead to other things. And as like, a, you know, if you have a business mind it's like, sometimes you got to take that. If you do that too much,

Sean Bjerke: yeah you leave a lot of money on the table when you could have probably been doing something a little bit more intelligent with your time.

Sean Bjerke: But you got, that that's another thing is like, over time you kind of pick and choose like, this, this seems like, a good one. This one, I can put it on the table so.

Sean Bjerke: Yeah initially it was kind of like, I didn't feel like, oh shit I made a bad decision to do this. What I did realize, I was, I said, if I want to make this kind of money, I really have to work hard, and I have to be very consistent with

Sean Bjerke: Just everything, you know? Like, my my performance, so I had to like, I had to keep myself healthy and and still learning.

Sean Bjerke: Because it's really easy for this stuff to stagnate. I've seen so many teachers over the years that like, they're hot for a year and then they just

Sean Bjerke: stop teaching or they go do something else which is fine. You know, maybe they decided they want to change careers, but

Sean Bjerke: I think, as far as like, if you want longevity in something like, this, you got to have like, a longevity focused mind that's willing to adapt to the climates and with COVID.

Sean Bjerke: You know Tyler knows this is like, right away was like, middle of March last year, they're like, hey the whole world shut down.

Sean Bjerke: And I was like, I have to continue to teach somehow so I just was like, I don't know how this is going to work but I'm going to jump on YouTube Live and

Sean Bjerke: I'm going to teach classes like this and then eventually it turned into this, Zoom.

Sean Bjerke: And it was crazy how consistent like, attendance was in these classes, they, I wouldn't say they were like, monstrously massive but I had like, the same people coming in, week after week, sometimes multiple times in a week that really,

Sean Bjerke: bot just benefited from the dance, but in life like, the life style midway through last year there was nothing going on.

Sean Bjerke: So they needed something spiritually uplifting, emotionally uplifting, and if if house dance was that thing, you know, I made a lot of new students out of it too.

Sean Bjerke: People that are like, new to completely new to house and they're like, yo I want to keep doing it so.

Sean Bjerke: Being able to adapt to the climates, you know, social media is a big thing, you know? Like, I love Instagram but I don't think Instagram is going to be the biggest thing in like, a few years, so I have to be open to maybe biting my knuckles and going on Tik Tok at some point.

Sean Bjerke: But I see like, how useful it like, some dance like, dance teachers are making good use of it now to like, make, you know, interesting videos.

Sean Bjerke: Communicate good information, so you got to be open to stuff like, that, even if it feels like, a trendy thing, like, everything changes over time, you know, even like.

Sean Bjerke: Instagram initially I was like, this It just seems like, we're sharing pictures and bleh.

Sean Bjerke: but, eventually, it became very good for for like, posting videos of like, kind of like, useful content. So I actually,

Sean Bjerke: probably my most popular stuff on Instagram is stuff where I do, you know, short instructional things where people are like, oh shit like,

Sean Bjerke: this is something I want to like, come back to later they'll save it, or they'll share it, they'll like, you know, comment on it, they'll engage with it.

Sean Bjerke: And I'm like, oh that's good I gotta keep that in mind, like, this is the stuff like, people don't want to see selfies of me in the shower like, they want they want me to teach them something, you know?

Sean Bjerke: Unless I can make some good money on what it, like, Only Fans or something.

Sean Bjerke: I had to like, weight that option, but yeah as far as just, you know, constantly evolving climates you got to kind of keep your your ears and eyes open.

Sean Bjerke: And just be like, like, like, learning and dance like, you got to learn your your surroundings and like, how you can best promote yourself and put your best self out there.

Sean Bjerke: Without sounding too businessy, that's that can be tough that can be tough because, because, you know, if you, if this is your career and you're making money off of it, you know, you can't not

Sean Bjerke: have some type of financial tie to it. But like, being overly like, that's something that you learn is, you know, like, you come at it with good intentions, with good energy and people will understand, like, yeah this is, this is a quality thing I buy into it.

Sean Bjerke: So yeah it's it's a constantly evolving process.

Tyler T Hamer: Yeah and I was saying like, break very recently it's been even hard to sign up for your classes, because

Tyler T Hamer: you have that group from Instagram just rolling through every week right like.

Sean Bjerke: Yeah and it's funny that you mentioned him, this dude named Leo who he has a

Sean Bjerke: couple like, he's kind of building up his own website, platform called Alohub. It's like, aloha hub,

Sean Bjerke: Alohub. Where he has different experiences that you can do in Boston like, different activities that people can go into this very, very user friendly website.

Sean Bjerke: You can find things really easily. He does, like, a really good job of like, putting up photos and descriptions of things.

Sean Bjerke: And people turn up to these things en mass, you know, like, you saw it like, there was like, Jordan, there was a week, a month ago,

Sean Bjerke: where I got this message from this dude he's like, hey I saw your class I was wondering if I could bring some friends. And usually, when someone says that they mean like, I want to bring like, a friend, you know, or two friends, I was like, yeah dude like, here's the link. Dude signs up 10 people.

Sean Bjerke: 10 people and I'm like, shit like, my class can only have like, 15 people what the fuck?

Sean Bjerke: So I actually like, I had to like, message like, Tyler I'm like, dude.

Sean Bjerke: Dude there's like, one spot left.

Sean Bjerke: Like you got to take it now or someone, I don't know like, and Tyler was like.

Sean Bjerke: Oh.

Sean Bjerke: But it's like, it's like, a good problem right? Kike, people are starting to kind of come back into their routines and they want like, good fun things to do so, the fact that

Sean Bjerke: he saw my stuff and thought it was cool. It's, and a lot of the people that he linked to it, like, some of them are coming back regularly now like, that's that's really cool to see so.

Tyler T Hamer: No, and then

Tyler T Hamer: the other thing I wanted to to just go back a little bit to talking about I'm staying fresh and like, you know, being ready for like, pivots and stuff like, that I

Tyler T Hamer: I've had one thing I know you did was you tried to, especially when you're starting out with your downtime, make sure there's online content, and so I guess like, two questions I had for you.

Tyler T Hamer: Or the first one being like, how do you create new content like, you know, and then second one is like, staying fresh is like, being an expert like, how do, how do you go about learning or those are two questions I was curious about.

Sean Bjerke: Yeah so I'll, actually as far as like, lear.n I'll do the learning question first. And always being able to like

Sean Bjerke: be able to go back to my teachers and just consult when I need, like, the beautiful thing about last year, there wasn't a lot of beautiful stuff about it, was

Sean Bjerke: everyone, all of a sudden became connected through Zoom like, instantly. It's like, I could I could literally sign off of this and, like, go into a Zoom room

Sean Bjerke: with someone from like, the Ukraine and Brazil and California, like, all in the same space and we could, you know, spend hours communicating different things to each other. So

Sean Bjerke: something from last year, like, that happened last year and it made it like, wow, information is really readily available now.

Sean Bjerke: Where you can't really, you don't really have the excuse like, if you don't know something it's like, yo there's like, an expert over there, that you can just hit up.

Sean Bjerke: And maybe you have to pay them like, a class fee to do it, but it's there. So like, learning, I again like, I'm blessed to have really good teachers that can all, can still teach me new things constantly.

Sean Bjerke: But also experiences are good teachers and I think the big thing will, with this coming year is like, getting back to some traveling and like, visiting different communities elsewhere, you always like, take away new

Sean Bjerke: you know lessons from visiting places even when it's like, doing stuff that it's like, okay, I do this thing and I'm going to this place to experience how these people do the same thing.

Sean Bjerke: We talk about culture, there's always going to be different things about that the way that culture does things you're like, hmm.

Sean Bjerke: I didn't realize, you could do it like, that. Or even it's like, you just see different energy, different approaches you're like, wow that's that's very valuable for me to like, take back and like, ruminate on.

Sean Bjerke: So just having the people and the experiences to tap into

Sean Bjerke: will always keep you learning right? No matter what. And just looking for those things as you get older like, as you get older like, you know, they're there it's just a matter of what you want to put your time towards.

Sean Bjerke: And then, what was the first question again Tyler I apologize?

Tyler T Hamer: No, no, no worries the first question was like, you know, especially,

Tyler T Hamer: I know that first year, you had like, obviously downtime with stuff and then you went and created like, a bunch of online content that ended up being really

Tyler T Hamer: advantageous at the beginning of COVID when everything went online, and so the other question was how did you go about like, creating new content? How did you, what made you motivated to do that?

Sean Bjerke: I'd say the big motivator was I all of a sudden had a lot of free time to,

Sean Bjerke: to do something.

Sean Bjerke: But it was like, it was like, man like, I'm not going to be teaching as much, but I feel like, I have a lot of good information that

Sean Bjerke: I can put out there and I think there's a market for it. So as far as like, how I created like, I did, I created a beginner like, house guide,

Sean Bjerke: that I was, I wanted to be very careful and I had like, some conversations with some of my elders about just how to like, phrase it because there's a lot of

Sean Bjerke: material from like, the older generation of dancers that's online, that's like, readily available, that if I was to like, put something out that sounded like

Sean Bjerke: it was named, similarly to that people could look at that and be like, oh who's this who's this younger guy doing this? So I actually had some conversations and I was, like, all right I'm going to call this, you know, absolute beginner house handbook.

Sean Bjerke: Just basic steps, literally stuff that you can just learn in your living room.

Sean Bjerke: And there's way more to this stuff than these steps, but this is just a good starting point where they're all in one place, one online platform. So that was the idea and then like, how I made it, you can do a lot with an iPhone and a tripod.

Sean Bjerke: So, like, the nice thing was with, again I say nice thing with with COVID like, when we started to kind of hide in our houses, it was the spring, so the weather outside was decent.

Sean Bjerke: And I was like, huh like, the lighting outside is pretty good in my backyard, I've got some open space, it's actually not a yard, but like, back patio.

Sean Bjerke: And I can set up my camera in the middle of the day when, you know, not much is happening there's not a lot of noise outside and I can film myself just doing doing these breakdown videos. And

Sean Bjerke: the hard, I'd say the most challenging part was just packaging it into a, like, a nice looking thing on my website so that it looked like, okay, I can follow this pretty well.

Sean Bjerke: This guy sounds like, he knows what he's talking about, I actually had to like, record my I didn't want to talk outside.

Sean Bjerke: Because the sound quality wasn't so good, so I actually ended up, I probably could have thought about this more in advance, watching each video like, back on my computer and like, talking like, as the video played, trying to imagine if I was watching this what would I want to hear.

Tyler T Hamer: Yeah.

Sean Bjerke: So it was almost like, inception, it was like, I had to go inside someone's mind that was watching me talk about what I was doing it was weird.

Sean Bjerke: But like, long story short it ended up coming together okay, I actually have there been a couple times, where I wanted to go back and maybe like, re refine some things.

Sean Bjerke: Again, based on some stuff that I learned this past year, with some things like, oh, this is actually a better

Sean Bjerke: thing to communicate with this step than what I was doing before. Like, what I was doing before is fine, but like, it can be better. So,

Sean Bjerke: yeah like, I guess online content, it's it's not too hard to film yourself just I would say, I, I become more conscious of the quality, like, you, guys talk about your microphones.

Tyler T Hamer: Yeah.

Sean Bjerke: The sound quality of voices big is a big deal with dance videos now cuz there's so much, there's so much good quality stuff that it's easy to kind of get lost in the shuffle, but as far as like, the content, like, the actual like, information that's being shared.

Sean Bjerke: Again blessed to have good teachers that have taught me good things that I can go into the lab and kind of, you know, do my own thing with it's like, oh here's like, a new take on this thing that maybe you already know.

Sean Bjerke: Here's a new take on it, you know, take it or leave it it's just, you know, it's there for your for your training purposes, if you really want to do it.

Sean Bjerke: And I've gotten a lot of good feedback on stuff like, that, so I, I haven't been doing as much recently, because just getting back to teaching it's, you know, you can only have so much time and energy to put into that.

Sean Bjerke: Right, it's something I think I want to get back

Sean Bjerke: into maybe consistently being an online presence, where maybe like, once a week like, here's a, here's a little lesson for something. Okay next week here, something a little different so just keep people engaged and ultimately it's useful I hope.

Tyler T Hamer: Yeah I mean like, I, it definitely. it's funny the, when, the early beginner stuff that you had online also when you first went to YouTube, I was actually, you know, back when I was like, figuring out my pas de and stuff like, I was in Jordan's basement doing it like.

Sean Bjerke: Yeah yeah so that's it, yeah this if, you know, if I put all this stuff out there and like, it was crickets like, no one's really biting into it, I then I had to go back to myself and be like,

Sean Bjerke: am I doing, am I, putting out the right kind of content, maybe I need to like, make myself better before I think about being an authority on it.

Sean Bjerke: That's entirely possible like, I'm sure I'll look back at some of the stuff in five years that I'm doing now, and being like,

Sean Bjerke: yeah that could have been better man that can be a lot better. But that's, that's, that's what's good about having like, a growth mindset is that you never really like, stagnate, you know, you're always kind of looking to push up a little bit, that you're going to keep learning.

Jordan Ugalde: Yeah I would say it's, if you are looking back in five years and be like, oh, how did I put out that? I think that's a good sign, because it means that you have been growing this entire time, so you like,

Jordan Ugalde: you are making better, you're making better choices, you're producing better content, work, anything over time, I think that's really important.

Sean Bjerke: It's a good point. I don't think a lot of people think about that either like, I think some people think that they get to a point and it's like, I've made it.

Sean Bjerke: Like I made it and whatever I put out is gold. And then, you know, that maybe they go back and they like, come up with some better stuff but I,

Sean Bjerke: you know, I'd be remiss to think of like, many people who go back like, five years now, like, oh man that could have been a lot better. A lot of times like, oh that was so dope that was so great. I'm very much like,

Sean Bjerke: I sometimes will watch old stuff that I do and I just have like, this, I don't know my eye for it changes. Like, when I did it, I was like, this is great, this is so cool and then I look back and I'm like, hmmm.

Sean Bjerke: There are some things, though, that I look back on and I'm like, that's good but it's like, that's how I look at like, how about that? I was expecting it not to be that great but that's okay.

Sean Bjerke: Tyler were you about to say something like, you had like, a hand.

Tyler T Hamer: I was just gonna say if,

Tyler T Hamer: if Jordan and I end up like, if this ends up going I hope the podcast goes super long, but if we make it, you know, like, five years from now we're looking at back on our original episodes, that would be fun to interview everyone to get, if you like, let's see if we can do this better.

Sean Bjerke: I'll be like, yeah, I was eating a burrito when I was talking to you guys.

Jordan Ugalde: Yeah yeah so just to wrap things up for the night, a final question.

Jordan Ugalde: For someone who is just getting into dance just, or, is not into dance or Taekwondo right now, but is even considering it what would you say to get like, to someone who is thinking about getting started in either of these disciplines?

Sean Bjerke: Like how to approach it?

Jordan Ugalde: Yeah, how do you approach it to get passionate about it?

Sean Bjerke: I think one thing that you can do for both, if they if, if the studio lets you is going to watch a class.

Sean Bjerke: Like just go watch and kind of, you'll, you'll know, in the first probably

Sean Bjerke: 10 to 15 minutes if it's something that looks like, yeah like, that looks like, something fun to do that I could try or something where you're like, mhm.

Sean Bjerke: It's,

Sean Bjerke: like I think with with martial arts, again, I think it comes down it's not so much the martial art, but the teacher honestly, because I think if I had like, a really great

Sean Bjerke: teacher that taught like, I learned Taekwondo I'd say like, 180 degrees opposite of Taekwondo is something like, Aikido.

Sean Bjerke: You know where it's, it's like, instead of like, striking and kind of keeping distance it's like, come closer to me, so I can use your body to my advantage.

Sean Bjerke: If I had a really good teacher and I came into something like, Aikido I would probably pursue it and and get a lot out of it.

Sean Bjerke: But uh I think some people approach it like, what kind of martial art do I want to do, which is okay too. Just make sure, like, you get an idea of what the classes are going to be like.

Sean Bjerke: Because if it's like, you, you go in and you, you like, oh I, I want to do Taekwondo and the teachers, like, a really big a-hole you're like, eghhhh.

Sean Bjerke: I don't want to necessarily, because a lot of times they make you commit money up front, like, our school we it's like, a kind of a gym membership it's like, all right you're signing up for a six month program. Six months? That's going to be like, many hundreds of dollars.

Sean Bjerke: People are very, you know, they want to know what they're doing with their money so,

Sean Bjerke: do yourself a favor and put some time into just doing like, the research. If you don't, if you're not like, a Google person,

Sean Bjerke: go, I think going to watch in person is the best, the best thing. Because you just get to see it right in front of you, and you kind of put yourself in that spot like, yeah I could learn this or not learn this. And then dance, I would say,

Sean Bjerke: you could try to do the same thing I think some studios, I actually don't even know. Kike, I've never had somebody really come in to watch my dance complex class maybe like, once or twice.

Sean Bjerke: And then, like, they if they leave 10 minutes in it's like, okay I don't really know how to follow up with them. But

Sean Bjerke: same thing it's like, you see how they move, you see how the teacher teaches, you see how the students absorb information. But I think also,

Sean Bjerke: listening to some music and getting a sense of what like, the music is first, so that you're not like, shell shocked when you come in and it's like, wait I gotta, I gotta move and be on beat? What the fuck? Like.

Sean Bjerke: Getting a sense of if the music is something that you like,

Sean Bjerke: I think that helps a lot with absorbing the material, because if you, if you're learning movement, and then the music is something that where you're like,

Sean Bjerke: I don't like, this, like, I don't know how to listen to this, the movements not going to connect. So the music, I think, is a big important factor in, for dance.

Sean Bjerke: If you can't watch a class, there's, there's so much stuff online that maybe you could look up about like, if you wanted to learn house dance, just go to house dance on YouTube and a billion things come up and just like, watch some and, you know, hopefully, you find something that's legit.

Sean Bjerke: If it looks like, something that you, oh, I

Sean Bjerke: might want to learn that check it out.

Tyler T Hamer: No that's fair and then I guess closing, if you want to, I'm just going to shamelessly promote you Sean, but if you want to give a call to your website and your Instagram resources.

Sean Bjerke: Yeah okay, should I should I do that now?

Tyler T Hamer: Yeah yeah yeah.

Sean Bjerke: Yeah so on Instagram I'll just like, kind of put my phone up but I'll also just say what it is so. If,

Sean Bjerke: there we are, so shizz underscore matic schizz_matic, but if you type in my name, Sean Bjerke,

Sean Bjerke: and/or Boston house dance, if you type, type that into the search field, you'll probably see my my name come up. So I think the easiest thing Boston house dance. If I type it right now let's just see what happens.

Sean Bjerke: Oh,

Sean Bjerke: number one.

Sean Bjerke: Yeah and and also just to kind of explain that, like, this that's more of a like, literally like, a search field strategy. It's like, I don't consider myself

Sean Bjerke: Boston house dance, I'm not. But I use that as a way that people can find me and then, if they have questions about what I do, or like, how they can get involved in the scene, like, I can be a resource for it.

Sean Bjerke: My website is just my name So if I go to, boo boo boo, let's go to the homepage. Homepage looks something like, this and then, if I go to the top,

Sean Bjerke: you can kind of see that, like, s e a n b j e r k

Sean Bjerke: But if you type my name in to Instagram, my Instagram links to my website, I also have a YouTube channel that links to those same things it's all a big intricate web of lies and deceit there's.

Tyler T Hamer: That's amazing.

Sean Bjerke: That's a big thing is like, to, you know, make sure social media channels are connected to each other, so if you find someone here, you can get here and here. So it's pretty much just my name is Sean Bjerke gets you where you want to go.

Jordan Ugalde: Okay, well, thank you very much for joining us tonight Sean it's been a pleasure.

Sean Bjerke: Yeah, this was fun.

Tyler T Hamer: Yeah, I guess, I will see you Thursday for class.

Sean Bjerke: I hope, yeah. Oh yes, right you already signed up right?

Tyler T Hamer: Yeah I signed up for Thursday and Saturday.

Tyler T Hamer: And I won't go to the zoo this Sunday so I'll be at the

Tyler T Hamer: Sunday class.

Sean Bjerke: That's right, that's right, holding you accountable.

Sean Bjerke: That's cool yeah thanks for having me on guys it's I always enjoy talking with people that have good like, kind of conversation line because

Sean Bjerke: every time I finish something it's like, well here's a new question that's going to make you think and it's like, it helps me,

Sean Bjerke: you know, tell my story that I don't get, I don't do this all the time, like, oh, this is like, everything that I've done over the last 20 30 years so like, when I get to talk about it with people like you, it just it feels more right, you know? It's like, okay I'm doing this.

Jordan Ugalde: It was wonderful hearing your story. Glad we should listen to it and hear more about it.

Sean Bjerke: Yeah man.

Sean Bjerke: We'll have to interview, we'll take turns in the interview booth so one of you can go next next time.

Tyler T Hamer: We'll see, we'll see, yeah.

Jordan Ugalde: Okay, well, thank you very much again and see you later.

Sean Bjerke: See you guys have a good night.

Tyler T Hamer: See ya Sean.